@birdfrock so if we have been griefed and then ask that person to stop as we are not consenting to it, and they continue they can be banned?

Or

If I am griefed or killed by another person and I tell them to stop, they have to stop? or they can be banned?

"""Excessively toxic is defined here as a perpetual engagement of harrassment, bullying, or unconsensual actions against another person or entity after being asked to stop by either the player or a staff member.

PVP, raiding, and griefing do not apply as these are agreed upon terms when joining the server."""

— The "Gnome Clause"

In Game Name: j____a____r____d

Reason for your ban: Banned by an operator

Why should you be unbanned: I was doing nothing but goin' over my wheat field with my chopper when I was banned from the server, I didn't do anything wrong and was just doing an honest days work of harvesting. I know I express my opinions on the flourishing and controversial renovatin' business sometimes and some folk don't like it, but CraftyMynes has been the freest and most patriotic it's ever been in years and I want to continue doin' my hard wheat farmin' work with no troubles. Thank you and Crafty bless our staff!

I hate seeing the conflict, CraftyMynes is a patriotic server of donators that respect each other! The deep server is trying its hardest to destabilize the community, but we won’t let it!

@CommanderCat_ YOU'RE ALLOWED TO RAID AND GRIEF.

@CommanderCat_ Punishments for griefing were made for casts that severely impacted the servers TPs. If I pm a player that I see you actively grooming with the intent to inside and raid, bedtrap, and/or fuck with them until they leave the server I'm going to warn them. You're not mad because my warnings are untrue. You're mad because you don't get the chance to fuck with them. That says a lot more about you than myself.

Your actions do cause new players to quit and you know this. You want to know positive player interaction that keeps players playing? Actually helping them and being kind. Sure maybe some stay longer because the get killed and drama or whatever, but I'd wager a LOT more would stay a LOT longer if they weren't bullied.

You bullying new players negatively effects player retention.

Insanely huge lavacasts have been made on the server before with no issue from the staff, I particularly remember the previous spawn city one being extremely egregious, ugly, and huge. You are now suddenly taking an issue with it because of "performance" (let's keep in mind Crafty's explanation on why lavacasts are laggy is blatantly false, they are simply provably quadratic in growth with respect to cast height as opposed to exponential) when historically lavacasts were removed because they made the surrounding spawn area ugly and not enticing to new players.

Raiding and griefing, additionally, inherently impacts these "new players" you're desperate to protect. This "holier than thou" opinion that you take as head mod/unpaid jannie/whatever the title is nowadays, since it seems like mod "number status" means jack anymore, reflects exactly the direction the server is being taken in. Many old players from griefing/PvP clans who have joined before you agree with this observation.

I will be glad to move on to another server/community once you honestly reflect that this server's values, going forward, is to stop trolls from "grooming" (LOL) new players into being trolled and promote "positive player interaction" via "helping them and being kind." These things do not spell "raiding and griefing is allowed."

@CommanderCat_ There are plenty of old players who have adjusted to the server with flying colors. The server is still a griefing and raiding server. Happens all the time. The difference is when it is done in excess and for the malicious purpose of getting new players off of the server. Which I have personally seen done time and time and time again.

Got it, so you can arbitrary determine "excess griefing and raiding" and punish people for it, meaning griefing and raiding isn't allowed unless you say so.

Sorry, if I join a server that says "raiding and griefing are allowed everywhere expect spawn" I expect to be able to steal some dude's shit if he based 5000 blocks of .spawn. If he cries about it to you and you suddenly decide it's not okay then I'm not allowed to raid whatever structures I find, that's false advertisement. You can't have your cake and eat it too, but apparently you think you can because you want to create a curated, coddled anti-griefing experience but also entice new players in with "raiding and griefing gameplay." That is simply contradictory.

Also, by "old players," you mean builders lol. Of course builders can quickly adjust to new rules that prohibit raiding and griefing. Not every old player is a griefer in a griefing clan.

@CommanderCat_

Sir, this is an advertised griefing and raiding server, it will be treated as such by its long term players. If you do not want people bullying and "grooming" (LOL) players into being bed trapped or accepting teleports or whatever, ban griefing/raiding/PvP outside of the arena with your powers of inventing rules on the fly whenever necessary, and completely change the vote site branding/rules of the server to state it's no longer a griefing/raiding/PvP server.

You can take the server into a new direction of love care and compassion all you want, I don't care, but you don't get to do that and simultaneously advertise that there's factions gameplay with raiding, griefing, and PvP too.

Us oldies can piss off to another server that better represents the old CM experience, which is what you clearly seem to want since you have a clear disdain for the old playerbase that formed the original identity of this server, and you can have 8-14 people building things with Litematica, and everyone will be happy.

@CommanderCat_ but if you look at the stats, the server is not dying. It has had the best player retention, interaction and overall numbers in years. This is the direction the server has taken and I am sorry that you do not agree but it certainly isn't killing the userbase.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc . The increase in playerbase was not due to the change in direction towards an anti-griefing, anti-raiding experience, and everything to do with the fact that Mojang just released an update that adds new mobs, weapons, and overhauls the existing combat with a new "raiding" trial experience.

The server was doing abysmally poor until the update was released which brought in a wave of returning players, and you can observe this pattern happen with every single major update before -- the difference between then and now is that you had players from the previous updates still interested in continuing to play long afterwards.

I guarantee that as soon as Mojang switches to the "drops" system, people will continue to drop, and nobody is going to come back to CraftyMynes solely because Mojang doubled the space of a bundle or they changed how swords work.

@ThePhoenix You can't help Mojangs shit game code.

Yes you can, I have already said the solution was to go semi vanilla in the past, there are community polls where many active players have agreed with the change to semi vanilla because the game was genuinely turning to pure dogwater performance-wise, they have been ignored and brushed aside with the response "it's too much work, I have to fix boats."

I have made the case to use a Fabric server which is exactly one-to-one with the vanilla server software by design when no mods are installed, meaning that in principle Crafty could switch to a Fabric jar in a single day and still use the existing command block/panel systems, forego the "pure vanilla status," and install optimization mods later which increase the performance of lighting updates on the server, mob AI, etc... "fixing Mojang's shit game code" so to speak. The response was "it's too much work."

In the times that Crafty has responded to requests for semi vanilla he has stated "it is too much work to switch to semi vanilla, I have done it before and everything breaks," which again it shouldn't break command blocks, panel systems, etc if he used Fabric, as it's specifically engineered to not patch the vanilla server any more than is required by its installed mods. As in, if there are no Fabric mods installed on the Fabric server (especially the Fabric API), it performs no patches to the vanilla server, and functions identically to it. He has never addressed that point in particular.

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Regardless, I quit playing because I felt like the staff wasn't listening to my listed grievances. I've watched CM stumble since then, and reach horrible lows of 1-2 active players, with coping excuses like "it's a school weekday, kids won't be playing" or "everyone moved on from Minecraft." The fact is that everyone in the past has moved on from CM.

This could have been fixed if there was a more active involvement from staff in the direction of this server. I still don't see any sign of activity that signifies anyone actually seizing the helm of the server and bringing it somewhere new, it has mostly been minor things like "let's pardon everyone who used minimaps or Lunar client," or "we're going to approve a bunch of QoL mods and turn the server into a weird optional plugin-like modded vanilla experience" or "let's make 3 new channels in the Discord and delete the other random ones."

These things all benefit an existing community, not one that has hemorrhaged players for years and years, and suddenly was revived due to a Minecraft update. Considering that Mojang is now planning to do tiny "drops" of like 1-2 features instead of huge overhauls like before, this does not spell out good for the future of the community.

Other things that heavily persuade me that the server isn't heading in the right direction are the incredibly strange staff decisions being made like... you know... banning pie chart for its use as an xray yet allowing Litematica despite its potential use as an xray. I've used the pie chart in my own modded servers specifically to debug rendering issues and low FPS in order to triage things to a single thing or mod, it has legitimate use as a profiling tool if you know how to use it. So then why is having the pie chart up bannable, but having Litematica isn't?

Or that in the 10th anniversary post, Crafty basically directly admits the server doesn't pull in enough donations for him to not pay for it out of pocket, i.e. it's financially infeasible:

@CraftyMyner Over the past few years I couldn't bring myself to joke around as the topic just seemed too real. The numbers were down and I was paying out of pocket for the majority of the server. When I saw the 10th birthday coming up, it all caught up with me, I realized I can't keep doing this forever.

Then proceeds to start a store-wide sale ushering the existing players to buy ranks -- the subtext and optics there aren't great.

@ThePhoenix I think its kinda hard to listen to old players when they don't even play on the server is all I'm saying. Like why should people who haven't joined the server in years think they are knowledgeable enough to know what the server needs when they have yet to join the server? To me that doesn't make sense. You would want to hear from the current playerbase to see what could be made better.. I guess yall can't see that.

I know, it's crazy right that the old players don't play anymore, they shouldn't get a say at all in the current community. Now please apply your reasoning back to 2018 and 2019 when the old players actually were active all the time, and we were complaining about shit like ocean generation crashing the server every single minute, villagers constantly disappearing due to lag, or constant lag when the server goes above 10 players.

Can you understand why we don't play anymore now, or do I need to break it down?

@ThePhoenix So calling staff incompetent is ok but explaining why someone was banned is a derail? Crazy.. Also bringing up a ban from over 5 years ago... Yikes

You explaining why a ban in Discord happened is completely irrelevant to the fact that long time players and even recent players like Casey Fluffbat were challenging the absolutely insane logic that is:

we will ban vanilla pie ray because it can be used to xray, despite having a legitimate use of checking for lag
we will allow litematica because it has a legitimate use for builds, despite it also having a glorified xray function

Or the fact that the server has been advertised as allowing raiding and griefing for over a decade at this point, yet spawn city is arbitrary chosen as "too close to 0,0" and griefing it will get you banned despite it being completely unprotected.

You know this. You are intentionally derailing the thread from the original topic of us grieving that the staff have, for years, refused to listen to anything the old players have to say.