@iwarriiori let's take a poll

Thx Iwarriori, did you like your sign ?

@NerdieBirdieYT @R4iscool1 As I mentioned, perhaps this ban was legitimate. It's what Grassling brought up after the ban that is relevant to the community. No, I don't expect you to take harassment. I am not stupid.

There is no perhaps, we will not tolerate harassment of any players on our servers.
If your values are incompatible them I'm sorry but we won't allow it.
Indeed he has sparked a flame, one that would have been better served with a measured response and discussion but that time has passed sadly.

@NerdieBirdieYT The thread was a Ban Appeal thread. It was locked in the sense that only staff could reply to it. And again, I don't have everything I need to prove staff is evil, and that's not my goal at all. I have heard a LOT in the past few months about weird bans, bans that are more emotionally based than anything. Rudeness from the staff is pretty common, depending on who you are. Even newbies are sometimes mistreated by staff. You say this isn't a staff issue, but I don't disagree with any of the rules. My point is that they are poorly enforced. As someone I talked with earlier said, they seem to be "moody". Bans and warnings often occur for no good reason.

It was moved out to general for a bit before we decided to wait for a proper response.
Again, you keep claiming these things but rulebreakers do complain about staff for unfair reasons that just life. However if you believe there is legitimate complaints among them then tell us what you think we have done wrong.
There is no point in this pointless back and forth, "I heard this or that" unless we have specific situations in which you think we acted inappropriately and explain why then we can never change since we will never know what you are talking about or whether it's valid or not.
We enforce the rules as they were intended when they are written, if you disagree with the intention and the situations they cover then you should make a post about the rules not the staff who are just enforcing precedent most of the time.
I've never encountered a ban for no reason, please once again can you tell us of even one instance of this ?

@NerdieBirdieYT Obviously force is required. But rules are often taken too far on CM, and force is used without good reason.

Again we need examples without giving us examples, there is no way to see what you think went wrong or whether your complaint is valid or not. There cannot be change that way.

@NerdieBirdieYT

I want to note that I have not once been officially warned by staff. This is not a personal complaint, it's what I see from the community at large.

Personally I think 3 months is a short time to be able to see what the community at large believes but each to their own.

@NerdieBirdieYT @R4iscool1 Regarding the Grassling situation, it was not "abuse" using the first names of staff members. Grassling mentioned he knew that staff was called by first names by other players.

Whether his ban was fair or not is not the point. It's what he said after his appeal in the deleted thread (which included nothing breaking rules, so why remove it in the first place? it was a locked thread anyways) that connects to this community. Many, MANY players have left because of rude staff or pointlessly strict enforcement of rules.

Should rules be enforced? Of course.
Should private info be leaked? Obviously not.

But to say that staff's enforcement of rules and general demeanor is NOT an issue to the community at large is blindness. I've been here for three months and it's blatantly obvious to me and most of the playerbase here.

@R4iscool1 Please do not give me the crap of "What should we do? Offer cookies to hackers?" and the like when I am being mature, honest, and allowing for community input on a big issue on CM. I'm not saying we abolish the rules. As for a solution, well, that's why this thread is public, because I am not intelligent enough to come up with a perfect solution on my own.

You say this isn't an issue? Look how fast this post has generated responses in the past hour or so. Look around.

Yes it was abuse, he was repeatedly told not to use them names as it made staff feel uncomfortable and we have had incidents of severe harassment of staff before.
We don't deserve to be harassed, so please don't expect us too.
Do you expect strangers to call you by your real name on the Internet?

I already told you, we wanted to formulate a response to avoid it spiraling, clearly didn't work. It wasn't a locked thread either.
Can you cite examples, insisting that many people left isn't going to change anything unless you give us the details and explain why you think we are wrong.
I don't believe the current stance we take is pointlessly strict, I think it's suit our community quite well personally but we can't have this discussion without you giving us the why.
It isn't a staff issue either, so stop making it out to be. It's about how the rules are and how you want them to be. We only enforce the rules.

Once again you need to explain what and why our demeanor is wrong.
Personally I believe most of the community would disagree with your assessment as well, the most vocal people tend to be the ones who have a complaint not those that appreciate.

Well if we don't have alternatives what can we do, breaking the rules must be backed up by force that's the only way it works.
Offering cookies as I pointed out doesn't work, the whole basis of society is based on the measured application of force just like Cm.

So far we have had 3 complaints, the most vocal people tend to be the ones with complaints.

@Cileklim I'm not going to give their names, I care about their privacy. And I'm not expecting staff to change either.
Keeping it simple nowadays

Then why even post? To try make staff feel bad for incidents we don't even know about? We can't change if you don't give us a chance.

@AssaultSquid I have trouble even speaking on the subject let alone holding my tongue in chat, when i joined this server i had every intention of being as kind as possible but when i voiced a complaint about how it feels unfair to ask people to vote to be able to set home i was greeted by some real A class rudeness all around,
this trend pretty much continued from then on
I consider my self a rational person but i have not encountered any staff actually ever trying to deescalate a situation through anything but sheer force,
I was kicked for racism because i stated a FACT that is NOT controversial
xylophone teeth was given a 3 day ban for Pretending to advertise and "not being very sorry about it"
he was not rude in his ban appeal but justified his actions by saying you cant advertise something that doesnt exist, the stafff reply was that you can advertise something that doesnt exist, im sorry WHAT???
that doesnt make any fucking sense on any level.
i saw a new player join the server once they said "I have an idea" and without hesitation an admin sarcastically replied "oh sure lets here your totally original idea i havent ever heard in years of being admin". it doesnt matter what they were gonna say thats straight up just a shit attitude out the gate from staff.
staff is frequently toxic and they support each other when they are toxic and never own upto mistakes( correct me if im wrong by showing me and instance of this)

Rudeness by whom? I very much doubt it was a staff member, perhaps you can supply logs to see what you think we can improve.
Overall though, chat isn't the place for such a discussion.

Staff always try to calm down situations by changing topic and giving warnings, I'm afraid that statement is simply so untrue I can't let it stand.
Yes however we do use sheer force and often because that is what's required, chat offenders generally don't listen to reason nor do they want to stop. Should we offer them cookies instead?

Of course you can advertise something that doesn't exist, people consistently sell and advertise ideas which don't exist.
In fact it's entirely beside the point, since staff don't have the time to check if every domain posted is real or not. You should not post domains at all, however the fact it wasn't real lead to the 3 day ban instead of the normal permanent.
After which me and Xylo made up and I'd like to say we are friends now since we play together.

Can you provide chat logs of this admin, I severely doubt with your history of rule breaking you are giving us an unbiased representation.
Also we do make mistakes and we do correct them, we screwed up the economy and apologized. We've had long down time and we apologized, we've banned people who aren't hacking rarely or we cant prove and apologized. Despite the fact we offer countless hours of our time on a free server.

@Cileklim I've seen a lot of players leave because of staff and sadly, some of them were my close friends.

Can you tell us the player and what lead to this?
If you really want staff to change we need to know what, how and why. Simply saying we caused people you like to leave shows nothing. We cause dozens of Hackers to leave everyday.

@NerdieBirdieYT Hey all,

This post is more geared towards staff, as most of the general public likely did not get a chance to read Grassling's final post (no, not his ban appeal denied by Dawn) before the thread was deleted.

While I do not know Grassling well, the post in question was made with clear points and a respect for staff, although it was a critique for them. However, as someone who tends to appreciate justified and mature anger, I do not understand why this post was deleted. Nothing Grassling said was overly offensive, nor did it break any rules of the forums. The post was as mature as anyone could ask. He did not say staff was awful or stupid. He gave his input, and let players make up their own minds on the matter. He was being reasonable throughout the entire post, even if you do not agree with his points.

While I typically appreciate the strictness of staff, I do feel that in some cases this goes too far. Deleting a post made to complain (justifiably, in my opinion) about staff should be seen as a suggestion or a critique, not as a bash to the head. If players are repeatedly noticing problems in the staff system (which Grassling mentioned, and I can confirm), they should be brought to attention, not hidden away because staff doesn't want their title slandered. I can't stress enough that Grassling was correct in many areas. Have many players left the server because of staff being overly strict and in some cases rude? Yes. Even in my short time here, I have seen that more than on any other server.

I am not bashing staff either. I do respect sticking to rules strictly and not taking any crap about it. But staff may want to consider taking heed of their community on how tight the reins are, because without community, no server is worth anything. Pull too tight, and your metaphorical horses die; the server falls apart. Forgive me for being a bit poetic, but the symbolism is accurate in my opinion.

Does staff need to undergo a change? Who knows? But if you force your community to keep its mouth shut on the matter, then don't be surprised when outrage breaks loose.

---

I am saving a screenshot of this post in case of deletion by staff.

I mean if it's geared for staff why not put it in a private thread and try resolve the issue instead of mistakenly making assumptions and trying to turn this into a circus.

I don't see how getting banned for harassing staff with their personal name and info leads to a justified anger?
Is it somehow okay to harass us but not normal players?
Would it be okay for us to post all the info we have on you?
We are people too.
As for why the thread was deleted, it wasn't actually just removed from view till an official response was made you would have known this had you actually contacted us.

Yes as staff we cause a lot of players to leave, that is part of our job. We need to enforce the rules to have a good community and friendly environment for all. That means getting rid of Hackers and offenders in chat and yes we need to be strict.
What do you suppose we do if we aren't strict?
Offer Hackers cookies to stop hacking?

I think ultimately you are turning a criticism of the rules into a criticism of the staff, this isn't an anarchy server and we do have strict chat rules, stricter than many other servers in the same category and for good reason, we have a large age range from young to very old and people appreciate not being insulted when they joined. That is in my opinion one of the biggest things that has made CM a success alongside craftys never ending dedication. While I understand that may not be for you and it may have caused some of your friends to leave. Those are the rules and we should stick to them in my opinion and I think the majority of players Ingame will agree with that sentiment.

Well personally from my watching I've seen it a number of times, players out there tend to be newish to the community, I used to do a lot of successful raiding back then before my staff days too.
Ultimately though comparisons about how it doesn't happen on a map 4 times the size aren't hugely relevant since people do hunt for raids past 20k without leaks and they do succeed and it becomes quite practical to do so in a 30k map or even a 50k one.

I don't see how that changes anything I said, I was just explaining where my viewpoint came from like I asked.
Where this a controversial issue, yes it would be hard to see where the playerbase stood but I think in this case it would be quite easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt whether or not the majority of the community wants this.

Like I said, it's not comparable, you are hiding in a 4 times smaller space at 50k on such a map, the actual coordinates don't mean anything since they aren't relative really provided they aren't close to spawn, it's the fact they have 4 times less space to search for you that means your rate of encounter will raise by a large factor.
When you look at the player stats and retention rate of new players I don't think it's reasonable to expect a whole load of players to stay when they get raided, regulars maybe but not the outer playerbase.
I'm more referencing the arguing and nature of the community becoming less close knit and more faction like with people not interacting with each other and greater player turnover. I don't think this would benefit CM in anyway, I'm here personally these days for the community not watching drama and arguing between players 24/7.

@NutjobBob Your maths is a bit off, a 30k wide map has space for 4.5 million 200 square block bases. I'd be surprised if that's less than the player base.

Yeah ikr was still asleep when I did this. We are talking about a space 44.45 times smaller than the current map, 30K is regarded as the minimum safe distance by many on this server(In fact many say even more).
At that sort of distance from my own experience in servers with that map size it become feasible to search the map in a grid pattern, especially if you don't include the 10k of RTP.