So, you don't want suggestions. Is that it? I mean it really sounds like it.

@Cileklim I'm not sure why you think that. The fact that we're having this discussion with staff, and that the server owner himself has said he'll consider it shows the opposite.
R4 has given us a staff perspective on this suggestion and, taken the time to discuss how it might affect the server in more detail. If staff and Crafty didn't want suggestions threads like this wouldn't exist.

As I mentioned, "most people" fact cannot be proven without a vote and apparently, we are not allowed to do that.

@R4iscool1 Well it can be proven since people have already stated that it they do not.

4 players stated that they don't want mob griefing to be enabled. I don't think this is "most people" but I can't prove it without a "proper" vote anyway.

@R4iscool1 The server doesn't just cater to you or a certain group of players wants, it aims to satisfy all the players

Yet you choose the minority of players over majority.
(Based on "unofficial" poll results)

@R4iscool1 Just as a lot would like to play it in a slightly less "Realistic" way. As has been expressed in this thread. Your opinion on that basis is no more important than theirs. It may in the end be out to vote to account for this.

I mean nothing is stopping you from spawning him above ground if you want to fight him like that. I know it's not indetical since they still cant break blocks however with features like set home and the like it never would be precisely the same anyway.

The server doesn't just cater to you or a certain group of players wants, it aims to satisfy all the players many of which don't enjoy said paranoia.

I believe this server was meant to be enjoyed as vanilla and not what a certain group of players want. And since mobGriefing is enabled by default, it is part of vanilla. I believe most people do want it on, or atleast the main player base too. It would indeed be harder for staff to clean around spawn, that I agree on. However, most players (from what I've seen) want mobGriefing on.
I think it's worth the cons for the pros. It makes villagers a lot less of a pain in the ass to deal with, snow golems useful, creepers dangerous and withers somewhat of a threat. I think that's worth the more to clean and a little commandblock creativity.

@NutjobBob I was going by this image: https://forum.craftymynes.com/983-command-block-room/p1#p8942
The purple blocks on the right are repeating command blocks that run every tick.

True, however because melons/pumpkins only have to go through 1 random update tick to grow rather than 8 for other crops, and because they trade at a rate of 7/8 per emerald, rather than 15, melon/pumpkin farms are 4-5 times faster than villager farms for getting emeralds.

The big selling point of the sever is that it's vanilla, people come to for an experience like they would get in a single player world, but with other people. The tp's and set home don't really fit into this, but as Crafty has said they're required for the community, and for the server to stay competitive. People join expecting these features and you can see it in the chat.
To most people mob griefing is an aspect of vanilla, whether they like it or not. Quite often you see new people joining asking why creepers don't blow up blocks. In my opinion, if technically possible, mob griefing should be on to keep with the vanilla aspect of the server. Regardless of whether people like it or not.

(and before anyone says gamerules are part of vanilla, should we also have perma-day, keep inventory, and no health regen?)

They are repeating command blocks that run every tick they are activated which for some of the functions is not normally I believe there is also the range of chunks it would be acting over, it's something we really need to ask Crafty to confirm though since my knowledge of the command block system in 1.8+ isn't that extensive.

Villager farms scale far better though.
You also gain the advantages of being actually able to trade with the villagers. I mean its something that will need to accounted for if it gets introduced.

Vanilla means an unmodfied Jar file, the gamerules are set within game and are features there to be used. Using a gamerule is 100% vanilla, no if's or buts.
What you may be referring to is what some people may in their own opinion refer to as a pure survival experience in which case the answer is quite simple, staff may need to curtail small aspects of gameplay to make the server more competitve and allow it to function better, which is why we have systems such as the villagers at spawn, spawn protection, TP's , PVP arena's and the like which may not be considered pure survival gameplay but over all we believe better the experience for most players.
Of course you may disagree that this adds to the experience but as I pointed out it's only an opinion and what should really be the deciding factors here are any technical limitations/ staff workload and crafties view on the matter not the various disagreeing opinions on whether it's good or not.

I mean if that's what is necessary and the player base wants it, then maybe yes we should.

@Cileklim So, you don't want suggestions. Is that it? I mean it really sounds like it.

What gives you that impression ?
All I asked was Jamblon refrain from creating a poll, so that staff can create a more representative one if it's decided that mob griefing won't cause issues on a technical/administrative level.

@Cileklim As I mentioned, "most people" fact cannot be proven without a vote and apparently, we are not allowed to do that.

4 players stated that they don't want mob griefing to be enabled. I don't think this is "most people" but I can't prove it without a "proper" vote anyway.

Yet you choose the minority of players over majority.
(Yes, the majority part cannot be proven without proof too, but you don't use any proof at all so why not)

See post above, let staff create a representative and official poll if it's decided that implementing it is a possibility however it may not be due to technical and administrative limitations which are more important in this case.

Just pointing out that on the poll linked by jamblon (Now removed) it is as of this moment sitting at 22 votes in favour of turning them on and 18 in favour of leaving them off.
This poll is far from representative of the server player base however.

Once again I have not made any claims regarding the number of players who support either side of this debate, only that some players dislike it, in fact the only person to make any claims regarding numbers is yourself by claiming that you represent a majority which is simply unbacked, though not necessarily false.

Can you quote me where I did make these claims I'd be interested to see this, since I made it my business not to do so.

@_Drachenzorn_ Exactly what Im trying to point out. Disabling mob griefing removes a feature which is designed and supposedly be there in vanilla survival. And because of that we cant do the things that is related to it (e.g. wither, auto farms, snow, creeper paranoia). "Zero" possibility because simply we remove it.

Now on the other argument that its because of "disliked creeper explosion" or "ruined spawn" Im pretty much sure we can do something about it. Solutions that we can do.

Again Ill make this a comparison, so I could be "more" objective.
Mob griefing on
Problem: creeper explosion and ruined spawn
Solution: There is (Ive already point some in my earlier post)

Mob griefing off
Problem: no auto farms, weak bosses, reduced vanilla experience
Solution: nada! Just live with it that you cant do these things (which pains me)

I hope I made a clear argument.

P.S.
R4, I dont know why you have the impression that I dont appreciate staff effort. If you mean that because I opened up all the other arguments that I think are relevant and not focus on cleaning the spawn argument, which is just one issue, then I apologize for not being that clear. My post is just to show the "other" arguments and to gather the opinion of the community. I played a lot of time in the server that I feel all these "other" arguments are valid but not clearly expressed. This is what Im trying to show. Of course I have my own biasness. Im pro mob griefing (thats why I started this thread) but I tried to listen to the other side (thats why I also list them and make comparison). I hope you could also listen to the other side.

-Drachenzorn-

Gamerules are part of Vanilla survival and there to be used, it's 100% vanilla.
While in your opinion and others it may not represent a "pure" survival experience others would disagree and the opinions shouldn't really be the deciding factor in this.

Your solution isn't a viable one as I pointed out earlier, in fact it was this seeming disregard for the problem that lead me to believe you didn't appreciate the work staff did.
Hiring more staff doesn't deal with the problem and creates a whole host of new problems with moderation and staff management as well as vetting people who will be given access to creatively spawned items to repair and resistance to defend.
As for commands, the only really viable on raised is the set entity data within a range but as I pointed out I believe this may cause greater lag and corruption, which is something we need crafty to confirm.

You are completely disregarding the opinion of those that don't enjoy creepers exploding either..

As for being unable to make certain farms it's true it does limit you but as pointed out above sometimes the staff limit certain features for the benefit of the server, the server is also balanced with this in mind for example in a "pure" survival experience there would be no spawn / teleports/ arena/ villagers at spawn for that matter.

I understand where you are coming from but you don't seem to have taken into account all the factors and opinions.

I felt your response being to simply hire more staff which seemed pretty dismissive of the current ones as unappreciative, I'm glad to hear you do appreciate our work however.
Trust me, I understand where you are coming and your points however I feel having seen both mob griefing on and off as well as having greater overview of how the server functions it's not viable and the amount of people that want it to be kept off are roughly similar to those who would like it on.

@R4iscool1 in fact the only person to make any claims regarding numbers is yourself by claiming that you represent a majority which is simply unbacked, though not necessarily false.

As I mentioned for the third time, I can't "back" anything without a "representative" poll.

@R4iscool1 Once again I have not made any claims regarding the number of players who support either side of this debate

@R4iscool1 Well it can be proven since people have already stated that it they do not.

This word of yours puts a clear line between the players that want to keep mob griefing disabled and "others". If you can create "proof" out of 4 players opinions, why do you need an official poll anyway?

@R4iscool1 You are completely disregarding the opinion of those that don't enjoy creepers exploding either..

This is a suggestion thread about players that dislike the absence of the feeling creeper explosions add to the gameplay, along with the other benefits of enabling mob griefing.

Mob griefing is disabled in-game at the moment which already shows the opinions of those that don't like the explosions. We are representing the other part of the player base.

@R4iscool1 the amount of people that want it to be kept off are roughly similar to those who would like it on.

Which shows that half of the player base wants this suggestion to be real. (Based on the "unofficial" poll)

@R4iscool1 Villager farms scale far better though.

I should have clarified; pumpkin/melon farms are about 4-5 times faster per area than villager farms for getting emeralds. They're always faster regardless of the size. They are harder to make though.

@NutjobBob I should have clarified; pumpkin/melon farms are about 4-5 times faster per area than villager farms for getting emeralds. They're always faster regardless of the size. They are harder to make though.

Villager farms are cheap, extremely easy to make and allow you to trade with the villagers themselves.

@Cileklim As I mentioned for the third time, I can't "back" anything without a "representative" poll.

@Cileklim Yet you choose the minority of players over majority.
(Yes, the majority part cannot be proven without proof too, but you don't use any proof at all so why not)

You seem to be contradicting yourself here.
There is no need to back anything, if technically/administratively it's too much of a burden then it probably won't be implemented as these issues take priority. If and when that's decided then we can have a poll to ask the playerbases opinion and take it into account.

@Cileklim This word of yours puts a clear line between the players that want to keep mob griefing disabled and "others". If you can create "proof" out of 4 players opinions, why do you need an official poll anyway?

Incorrect, you said it cannot be proven that people oppose this without a poll which is false and demonstrably so, since people have already stated they don't want it.
I have not once claimed that I know the number of players opposed/for it or that I know the opinion of the community as a whole, if wish to continue making such false allegations I'm going to have to ask you to quote precisely where I did.

@Cileklim This is a suggestion thread about players that dislike the absence of the feeling creeper explosions add to the gameplay, along with the other benefits of enabling mob griefing.

Mob griefing is disabled in-game at the moment which already shows the opinions of those that don't like the explosions. We are representing the other part of the player base.

I was responding to Drach's claim that he was representing all the problems in an objective manner, which as I have shown isn't true. I in no way hindered or suggested that you should not represent your opinion, only that technical/admin issues need to be taken into account and that opinions are not solely for turning it on If you believe I did, please quote.
Players on both side of the debates opinion should be taken into account after all.

@Cileklim Which shows that half of the player base wants this suggestion to be real. (Based on the "unofficial" poll)

Yes that is generally how a poll works.
It suggests that half the players want it and half are opposed.

I think the poll is only useful if warranted or issued by the owner if he feels the need for one , that said interesting to see the results though polls can be cheated etc... i think its better if people would just come to the forums and post their own input here , and that wont be rigged etc unless you count alts i guess..but other than that , i firmly believe that staff does listen and take inconsideration the players input , look how much time me and r4 respectively have put into this thread in general , now i know me nor r4 speak for staff as a whole and nor do i say we reflect the overall view of staff , i give my inputs based on countless hours of play on the server currently 130 mil_+ ticks from a player perspective and staff , i am sure others do the same .Some ideas and suggestions are not very well expressed and do tend to cause some friction , but this one on the other hand i think is one of the first really well done suggestions and once again i must say i am thrilled at the turn out so far by the community , keep being creative and tossing out ideas , i haven't known crafty for long as alot of people have overall but i have had lots of countless long conversations on teamspeak , prestaff and after i can tell you he listens and takes it all in and will make the best decision for the server ,not ass kissing btw its just the truth .

Please do not be afraid to post your opinion , we are not wild animals and arn't here to attack you for sharing your thoughts we are here for the community /server to help keep it fun ,safe, and respectable for all ages and peoples equally .

About the idea of putting this to a vote if it turns out to be technically feasible.
Although the mob griefing gamerule is vanilla, it disables (essentially removes) numerous features that the developers deliberately added to the game. Should we remove features the developers intended to be used from the game simply because players don't like them?

If so shouldn't we also vote on whether to change other gamerules such as keepinventory, doWeatherCycle, randomTickSpeed etc.?

I concur with 2chill don't be discouraged from posting your opinion simply, we try to take into account all the opinions involved. All we are trying to do is get the info about why the decision was made to disable it and why it may or may not be Re-enabled so that you guys can understand the decision and to explain our reasoning.

@NutjobBob About the idea of putting this to a vote if it turns out to be technically feasible.
Although the mob griefing gamerule is vanilla, it disables (essentially removes) numerous features that the developers deliberately added to the game. Should we remove features the developers intended to be used from the game simply because players don't like them?

If so shouldn't we also vote on whether to change other gamerules such as keepinventory, doWeatherCycle, randomTickSpeed etc.?

So does the same logic not apply in the inverse with relation to Sethome and such ?
Minecraft is an inherently customization game, it's a sandbox after all.

If a majority of the playerbase feels that a feature is negatively affecting their play experience as a whole and there is no technical/admin/other issues with disabling that feature then it should be considered.
There is a number of issues that lead to the original disabling however.
Servers are meant to cater to what the players want after all within reason otherwise no one will join.

@R4iscool1 So does the same logic not apply in the inverse with relation to Sethome and such ?
Minecraft is an inherently customization game, it's a sandbox after all.

If a majority of the playerbase feels that a feature is negatively affecting their play experience as a whole and there is no technical/admin/other issues with disabling that feature then it should be considered.
There is a number of issues that lead to the original disabling however.
Servers are meant to cater to what the players want after all within reason otherwise no one will join.

well said i agree with this 100% there are alot of variables that come into play with game rules etc.

@NutjobBob About the idea of putting this to a vote if it turns out to be technically feasible.
Although the mob griefing gamerule is vanilla, it disables (essentially removes) numerous features that the developers deliberately added to the game. Should we remove features the developers intended to be used from the game simply because players don't like them?

If so shouldn't we also vote on whether to change other gamerules such as keepinventory, doWeatherCycle, randomTickSpeed etc.?

The developers added the option to enable or disable these features based on personal preferences, if you play the console versions you can check or uncheck boxes for these features and turning most of them off doesn't disable survival specific achievements. So turning things like mob griefing off doesnt go against the wishes of the developers. They Intended for customized experiences just like this.

So then shouldn't we vote on other gamerules to see if the players want these features enabled?
As an example I've seen several people in the chat asking if keepinventory is on, of if it can be turned on. If staff want to cater to what most players want, and it cannot be proven what players want without a poll then shouldn't there be polls for other gamerules too?

@R4iscool1 So does the same logic not apply in the inverse with relation to Sethome and such?

I see where you're coming from. Don't forget that the sethome etc. make use of features that exist in the game. Making use of game features, and removing game features aren't really opposites.

I really want to hear now Crafty's opinion...