I never called you dumb Halo.
The forums do have rules though so while I understand it's your opinion I'm going to have to ask you to stop insulting people.

@HaloNest
Yea you didn't have a freaking clue mah boy.
You should take the PM's as a feedback and actually stop it.
Plus I read you post $&@;with a but of laughter I must admit €÷@¥!
And yes wikipedia is a tool, but you're not smarr enough to get it.

Please enlighten me as to what made you think I didn't have a clue?
I never even mentioned crime, that was you. How can I be wrong about something I didn't even say?

Look I don't care if people are insulting me in PM, personally I think that's just immature but they can continue if they wish.
Insults aren't feedback though, if they want to give me feedback then by all means critique my arguments and I'll be happy to accept any valid criticism.
Smart enough to get what?

@HaloNest
Back up brodie

P.S. America and Canada have different laws about data, but when they decide to interact with a foreign country they must obey their data laws

What does government censorship/misinformation have to do with anything we discussed?, I understand it's an issue and personally I'm quite attached to it as well but I don't see the link here.

What do you mean interact?
As a general rule sovereign states are mostly immune to litigation under non domestic laws.
A serve hosted in Canada which is accessible from the USA is not bound by USA data law. They may comply with it also but there is no mechanism to force them beyond seizing US assets and blocking the site.

Talk to talk but, I'll obey to your order.
Maybe it's better for me to stop, didn't mean to get so low R4, let's settle it

@GrandpaCarl00 @Dennari43

genuinely thinking you're not seeing the point and you and R4 are just trying to find stuff to nitpick on, but eitherways, too make this snappy and not type up 5 paragraphs with something that can be summed up in a few sentences to one..

This isn't related to the idea of the thread but your logic is honestly making no sense that it's forcing me to make a response

'' school- They ask for your name and you willingly give it.
pulled over by cops- They ask for your name and you willingly give it. ''

So are you saying I could register my kid for school with no name?

'' Heya, what's your name! ''
'' I got no name! No one deserves to know ''
'' Uh, Mr Principal, What's that kids name? I can't do anything since we don't have one listed down- ''

Getting pulled over my cops and giving a name you're required to give one via license but hey, let's play your logic.

'' Sir, why does your license have no name on it? ''
'' Because officer, due to my rights, I can get away with not putting my name down on anything! Willing, of course. ''
'' Oh, that's right! Haha! //High-Fives the driver and walks back to squad car ''

All the others are self explanatory, It's natural your going to put your name down for all of those, and 9/10 when starting out, you're not going to put a fake name likely. You're overlooking and overthinking what I'm saying.

I think you need a good refreshment on the first amendment, but hey, that's none of my bussiness //shrug

P.S -

Running on hot coals aren't good for you.

This is just how data law the world over works.
Read EU, US or Canadian data laws if you want.
It's not nitpicking that's just how it is.

No you couldn't register for school with no name but if you do so you have consented to give them access to your name and the other data you supply. However they can't share it without permission.

As I said certain statues of law in certain cases do require you to supply your name. In most countries however you have no requirement to do so until you reach the station however doing that may be seen as a sign of guilt.

Yes you are required to put your name on legal ID cards and legally it should be correct, you are therefore authorising the agency involved to handle your data. Of course you'd once again have to contest for it to be shared unless law requires that.

It is natural to put your real name in agreement but that doesn't make your personal info free for use in the public domain.
Take image rights, just because tiger Woods put his name on an ID card doesnt mean a company has a right to put his name and image on something saying he endorsed it.

That's how data laws work its a difficult balance between free speech and the right to privacy. I hope this clears up your confusion, an understanding of data laws is becoming more and more essential in the business world.

And, as expected, both players and staff have made this into a pointless, pathetic argument about something like IP addresses and their legal usage.

I give up on this thread. We had a good start, and many people (both players and staff) presented very good and accurate information, but unfortunately some people (again from both sides of this) can't handle an argument if they don't win on every freaking detail.

I can't believe we started with a discussion about staff and we've gotten to here:

"That's how data laws work its a difficult balance between free speech and the right to privacy. I hope this clears up your confusion, an understanding of data laws is becoming more and more essential in the business world."

- simply because some people (yet again, not just calling out r4, many made mistakes here, including me) have to be right on every point.

So keep arguing over USA legislation, I guess. I thought we could do this like mature people. I was wrong.

If staff feels this thread should be locked, I no longer mind.

@NerdieBirdieYT And, as expected, both players and staff have made this into a pointless, pathetic argument about something like IP addresses and their legal usage

Was that an evil plan?

Nooo, dont do it, just banter :P

@NerdieBirdieYT And, as expected, both players and staff have made this into a pointless, pathetic argument about something like IP addresses and their legal usage.

I give up on this thread. We had a good start, and many people (both players and staff) presented very good and accurate information, but unfortunately some people (again from both sides of this) can't handle an argument if they don't win on every freaking detail.

I can't believe we started with a discussion about staff and we've gotten to here:

"That's how data laws work its a difficult balance between free speech and the right to privacy. I hope this clears up your confusion, an understanding of data laws is becoming more and more essential in the business world."

- simply because some people (yet again, not just calling out r4, many made mistakes here, including me) have to be right on every point.

So keep arguing over USA legislation, I guess. I thought we could do this like mature people. I was wrong.

If staff feels this thread should be locked, I no longer mind.

Just because you don't see the benefit in a discussion doesn't make it pathetic or pointless. Everyday large corporations are collecting more and more of our data and using it for advertising and various other uses some of which don't benefit the user.
Having a good understanding of your rights and responsibilities when dealing with personal data is a good thing to have.
This is the age of the Internet, data is a powerful tool and more and more its being collected and used.

I do believe a mistake was made when we waited for an official response but I reject the idea that I have to be right because I'm not always and I'm aware of that.
I think the link between a discussion about the extent of a user's privacy vs freespeech and a user banned for violating the same principle is very relevant, not sure how you can't see how we reached it.

Personally I think I it's extremely immature to degrade what had been a mostly civil, relevant and educational discussion on how far data laws go and what your rights are. Just because you don't think it's relevant or it wasn't what you envisioned when you made the thread doesn't make it immature or not valuable.
I hope others actually take the time to read the thread and reach their own conclusions on the topic.

I have a question lads...

...when the fuck do you all plan to stop this shit?

Y'all can keep doing this forever, but it won't make any difference.

At all.

Even I didn't see that comment coming.

That's coming from someone who loves to win arguments with staff because I'm impossible to talk with when it comes to arguments because I somehow always tend to win these so all they do is the lock the thread, so let me just stay out of any kind of arguments because like Mr. Anonymous said, it's waste of time...and jesus 20 hours of arguing? I wonder what could you possibly do in these 20 hours y'all spent to argue lol.

@Anonymous What a wonderful conversation.

I've been watching and reading everything since it started and I have to say

I've never seen quite a staff like you bunch before.
You prefer to argue with your players instead of actually want to resolve the problem at hand and continue to make the problem worse
by your behavior shown. At first, it was fairly tame and full of good points, but now look at what it's devolved into because you
can't even manage a simple thread on your forums.

Now, who the fuck am I?
I'm an anonymous person who's been watching the entire time, I don't play on the server but I do know a very good amount about CraftyMynes and how it works. Trust me on that. I've also moderated Minecraft server forums before, and this is in no way shape or form how any
staff should handle a thread like this AT ALL.

(OMG ALT ALT ALT isn't true at all. But have fun with saying that.)

The only real person I see who is actually trying to remedy the situation is rnc2011, and I applaud him for that. THAT is how you handle
this, not act like R4, Vene, or almost every other staff member that has replied to this dumpster fire of a thread.
R4 and Vene's behaviors are the real issue here, R4 seems to want to argue over the littlest shit just for the sake of arguing, and Vene
is overreacting way too much to his FIRST NAME being posted.

Okay I'm not sure why you would be anonymous if you aren't actually involved or write this long post but staff have opinions too and they should be allowed to express them. We aren't robots and are entitled to our views like any other players. It's through expressing these views and finding a solution a problem is actually solved.
I'm sorry you think I argue for the sake of it but the fact you posted here despite having no connection seems to suggest the same about you.
I can agree with Nerdie though if it devolves to post like this then the thread will have lost its purpose.
This thread isn't supposed to be managed

@Anonymous First names are pretty much public information, people. If you post it online, it stays online. If you don't want people to use your
name in a specific place online, DO NOT POST IT. Vene seems to have done quite the opposite by making his first name public to this
server and people using it is entirely his fault. Now, removing his name and asking people to no longer use it is perfectly fine, but he
brought it on himself.

I've seen this argument quite often, and I'm going to shut it down right here and now.

"If strangers used my name, I'd be uncomfortable." No you wouldn't. It happens all the time, have you ever worked a job where you had a nametag?
Have you ever had someone call you for a job interview?
Have you ever met a stranger and told them your name?
Have famous people ever freaked out when a fan approached them on the street because said fan knew their name?
Does Kim Kardashian lose her shit every time a stranger who writes for a magazine uses her name in an article?

Ultimately your data is your data you have the right to privacy as I pointed out. Yes if you put your name on a name tag then you are consenting to other people using it. That's how data law works, sometime you might be required to do so for your job too, if you consent that's fine. If you don't consent however that is an issue just like Vene didn't. Whether they put it in the public domain or not as I pointed out is irrelevant to that right.
In response to your argument about Journalists, Journalism is in the int rest of the public and sometimes privacy is disregarded for the sake of public interest, that doesn't make it a free rein to do what you want with data however.

@Anonymous Dictating to people whether or not they can use your name or not and requiring them to ask permission is utterly stupid and going so far
as to ban Grassling over using Vene's first name is petty. It seems that staff reiterating that staff had already banned Grassling
multiple times beforehand makes it look like they were looking for any reason to perm ban Grassling, and they got one because
Vene made his name public.

Shut the hell up about whether or not it's legal or not to use a first name, because the majority of first names are impossible to track
back to the specific person that you're referring to. If Vene's name was Bob, you couldn't just type "Bob" into Google and you'd immediately
find Vene's Facebook account, that's not how it works.
And so what if people know your first name in a Minecraft server? Either get over it and learn to live with it, or throw a complete
tempertantrum and get someone banned because of your own mistake.

I'm sorry you think it's stupid but as we pointed out we value you privacy in CM here, our staff don't deserve to be treated differently to players and they have a right to privacy, if you think that's stupid I'm sorry but that's just it.

The only reason we mentioned his multiple bans is people kept saying we banned him without warning or that was the sole reason and he should have got more warning before Perma.
That wasn't the case so we supplied more info for their benefit so they could come to a proper judgement.

I think data law is quite relevant here despite your complaints it is isn't either.
We know what he did isn't illegal, no one ever said that.
What we did talk about was how far privacy extends and how it's currently enshrined in the law. An interesting topic for me at least.
Whether or not that data links directly back to you isn't relevant either to the right to privacy, if they don't want you calling them by their real name then don't.

@Anonymous Come on.

And then, the very handling of this thread is entirely fucking unprofessional. There are MULTIPLE ways staff could have handled this
and they were all ignored just for the sake of arguing the point that they are not toxic. (Ironic, if you ask me.)

If the staff TRULY AND HONESTLY cared about improving the way they handle themselves on the server, they would have made it very clear in
the first place, but clearly the majority of them just want to make the situation worse by arguing. There's only been about 2 staff members
that have shown true caring for the growing hostility between staff and players, the rest of staff don't seem to give a shit.

How could have this been handled then?

Let's list all of the possibilities.

1. Say "Oh we're so sorry you feel this way! Please tell us why you think we're toxic assholes and we'll try our best to work towards
being better towards our players and not spend hours upon hours arguing with them! If you do have evidence of a staff member being rude
like R4 has been for the majority of this thread, please submit it so we can make sure it doesn't happen again!"

Or something along those lines that is neutral, yet remorseful and hopeful of a better future on the server.

2. Lock the thread and have staff reply to it asking that if anyone has a problem with staff, they should take it up with them
privately and not blow this already fucked situation way out of porportion. In other words, "Take it up with crafty."

3. Have an open discussion with your players about why they feel like staff have been rude constantly and saying shit like "Rip you" when
a player dies to a server related issue, apologize, then go into staff chat and have a discussion with other staff members about
their behavior and how they can improve. If they don't improve, you can actually demote them! How crazy is that?

4. Don't argue with people.

5. Don't argue.

6. Don't. Argue.

Oh look, you went and argued.

So congratulations to the CraftyMynes staff and R4 for proving that there is indeed a problem with them and they aren't willing to change,
they'd rather argue with you for 18-20 hours just because they don't like that they're being called out!

Good job! Let's all throw a party with ice cream and cake over the failure of staff!

1. I asked multiple times for evidence of a staff member being rude to be submitted and said we would delay with it if the complaint was valid. So did clutch.
Clearly you haven't read the whole thread if you missed that.

2. We were doing that with the original thread, having a public discussion is much more beneficial however with the view of change as people can see what others think and there can be no accusations of censorship.

3. We have been trying to do that and it has been asked multiple times why they think staff are rude and in what situations this occurred. We then addressed the concerns in the thread.

4. I'd like to think this was a discussion not an argument for most of the time. People with clashing viewpoints will talk about their views and try to convince each other.
What did you expect, one person would say we were rude for any reason at all and then no one even if they were not staff would challenge it if they had a different view....

As you can see we actually did most of what you said, so I don't think this is very valid criticism at all, if you think otherwise we would be glad to have an explanation as to how we didn't and how you think we can do better.

We'd much rather solve a problem, personally the fact we have been talking this long shows we actually care. If we didn't we would just ignore it. It's posts like yours that are condescending that lead to the issues and take away from that process.

@R4iscool1 I'd just like to point out how the anonymous writer did spit some truth when he referred to Rnc. Rnc respectfully replied to the situation and let us know that our concerns were being considered/discussed. And we responded positivley to that because it's more comforting than being told by a staff member that 90% of the people replying on this forum are wrong and telling us WE don't have a problem with the server. If we all have a more positive attitude we are more likley to have positive change.

I agree, RNC has been probably the strongest voice of reason here that isn't trying to 100% justify the staff's actions and place the playerbase in the wrong out of the mod team rn

I do agree RNC's approach was nice but at the same time, when someone states something untrue about the staff and insists upon it, we do have to explain ourselves and unfortunately that often devolves into an argument.
We do need to explain ourselves after all, you have a right to know what went into the decision why we made it and why we believe it's correct.

There's no point in us just saying we are going to consider it either unless we actually do, and to do that we need to know what the problem is, why it's a problem and how to fix it. That may involve some convincing on both sides too as to whether or not something need to change.

Problems with staff have been stated throughout the forums but off the top of my head these are the ones I remeber seeing mentioned:

1. Some let emotion dictate decisions
2. Some are disrespectful to players
3. Some don't give players a chance to explain themselves or properly warn them
4. Technicalities are completley disregarded

@Grassling Problems with staff have been stated throughout the forums but off the top of my head these are the ones I remeber seeing mentioned:

1. Some let emotion dictate decisions
2. Some are disrespectful to players
3. Some don't give players a chance to explain themselves or properly warn them
4. Technicalities are completley disregarded

1. No one has yet to explain what staff and in what situations they have used emotion to decide.

1. Again same as above.
2. We do give players a chance to explain themselves however usually if it's going to turn into a long discussion the best place to do it is on the forums.
3. What technicalities ?

We want to know if something really is wrong we do but if you don't explain then we can't fix an issue.
I'm all for positive change and I've been trying to bring that about most of the thread so lets start of on a new foot from here on out ?

@R4iscool1

They've literally been stated over and over in the thread

@GrandpaCarl00 @R4iscool1

They've literally been stated over and over in the thread

Well the thread has extended over many many posts and the only 2 that have been brought up are Grassling and Snow, both of which so far we would view to be handled alright.
Can you explain why it isn't ?

@R4iscool1

1. I believe aswell as others that Vene banned me based on an emotional bias as he connected to similar yet, not directly relatable incidents to ban me

2. I believe Snowproper and Pimpcy said they banned or something for joking around and we not properly warned

3. Others have come forward to state their specific incidents maybe you could give it a re-read

Many others who have been faced with staff injustice aren't here today because they were banned and covered up by the staff. The staff silences voices that oppose it and now with a forum this big they cannot and some are scrammbling to throw out ridiculous, mostly repetive, comments, that aren't working towards any positive change.

Do I really got you explain? Have you not been reading my posts?

Alright, so this thread has gone ahead and dissolved into chaos again. A few things here and there to take away from here and mull over.

This aside I'm curbing this now and the thread will be locked.

To players, if you have concerns about staff conduct please come forward to me. Please bring evidence of said conduct and it will be investigated.

To staff, this thread is done. Do not unlock it, do not post in it.

Nysic