Hey all,

This post is more geared towards staff, as most of the general public likely did not get a chance to read Grassling's final post (no, not his ban appeal denied by Dawn) before the thread was deleted.

While I do not know Grassling well, the post in question was made with clear points and a respect for staff, although it was a critique for them. However, as someone who tends to appreciate justified and mature anger, I do not understand why this post was deleted. Nothing Grassling said was overly offensive, nor did it break any rules of the forums. The post was as mature as anyone could ask. He did not say staff was awful or stupid. He gave his input, and let players make up their own minds on the matter. He was being reasonable throughout the entire post, even if you do not agree with his points.

While I typically appreciate the strictness of staff, I do feel that in some cases this goes too far. Deleting a post made to complain (justifiably, in my opinion) about staff should be seen as a suggestion or a critique, not as a bash to the head. If players are repeatedly noticing problems in the staff system (which Grassling mentioned, and I can confirm), they should be brought to attention, not hidden away because staff doesn't want their title slandered. I can't stress enough that Grassling was correct in many areas. Have many players left the server because of staff being overly strict and in some cases rude? Yes. Even in my short time here, I have seen that more than on any other server.

I am not bashing staff either. I do respect sticking to rules strictly and not taking any crap about it. But staff may want to consider taking heed of their community on how tight the reins are, because without community, no server is worth anything. Pull too tight, and your metaphorical horses die; the server falls apart. Forgive me for being a bit poetic, but the symbolism is accurate in my opinion.

Does staff need to undergo a change? Who knows? But if you force your community to keep its mouth shut on the matter, then don't be surprised when outrage breaks loose.

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Edit: Grassling's post has since been restored by staff. Thank you :)

Link: https://forum.craftymynes.com/6502-my-outgoing-message

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I am saving a screenshot of this post in case of deletion by staff.

@Sirchristopher10 My bad. As I said, I did not know him well. I will fix the post.

I've seen a lot of players leave because of staff and sadly, some of them were my close friends.

@Cileklim I've seen a lot of players leave because of staff and sadly, some of them were my close friends.

Haven't we both seen so many people leave

Outrage never really has broken loose at all in the first place its just posts like these that stir up the controversy

@JSN_ And I'd love to keep it that way. My point in starting this thread was not to have everyone throw insults at staff, but rather get the ball rolling for change in the most peaceful way possible.

@Cileklim I've seen a lot of players leave because of staff and sadly, some of them were my close friends.

Personally I'm with staff on this, but I have seen people leave because of staff. Each to their own I guess.

@AssaultSquid ( correct me if im wrong by showing me and instance of this)

Here's one.

@OtherGreenGamer Here's one.

Oh Wow

@AssaultSquid That last statement was a bit overboard. Staff is not ALWAYS bad and not ALWAYS good. They're human. We just want to discuss the strictness that is too much for many members of the community. Thanks @OtherGreenGamer for the link.

@NerdieBirdieYT Hey all,

This post is more geared towards staff, as most of the general public likely did not get a chance to read Grassling's final post (no, not his ban appeal denied by Dawn) before the thread was deleted.

While I do not know Grassling well, the post in question was made with clear points and a respect for staff, although it was a critique for them. However, as someone who tends to appreciate justified and mature anger, I do not understand why this post was deleted. Nothing Grassling said was overly offensive, nor did it break any rules of the forums. The post was as mature as anyone could ask. He did not say staff was awful or stupid. He gave his input, and let players make up their own minds on the matter. He was being reasonable throughout the entire post, even if you do not agree with his points.

While I typically appreciate the strictness of staff, I do feel that in some cases this goes too far. Deleting a post made to complain (justifiably, in my opinion) about staff should be seen as a suggestion or a critique, not as a bash to the head. If players are repeatedly noticing problems in the staff system (which Grassling mentioned, and I can confirm), they should be brought to attention, not hidden away because staff doesn't want their title slandered. I can't stress enough that Grassling was correct in many areas. Have many players left the server because of staff being overly strict and in some cases rude? Yes. Even in my short time here, I have seen that more than on any other server.

I am not bashing staff either. I do respect sticking to rules strictly and not taking any crap about it. But staff may want to consider taking heed of their community on how tight the reins are, because without community, no server is worth anything. Pull too tight, and your metaphorical horses die; the server falls apart. Forgive me for being a bit poetic, but the symbolism is accurate in my opinion.

Does staff need to undergo a change? Who knows? But if you force your community to keep its mouth shut on the matter, then don't be surprised when outrage breaks loose.

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I am saving a screenshot of this post in case of deletion by staff.

I mean if it's geared for staff why not put it in a private thread and try resolve the issue instead of mistakenly making assumptions and trying to turn this into a circus.

I don't see how getting banned for harassing staff with their personal name and info leads to a justified anger?
Is it somehow okay to harass us but not normal players?
Would it be okay for us to post all the info we have on you?
We are people too.
As for why the thread was deleted, it wasn't actually just removed from view till an official response was made you would have known this had you actually contacted us.

Yes as staff we cause a lot of players to leave, that is part of our job. We need to enforce the rules to have a good community and friendly environment for all. That means getting rid of Hackers and offenders in chat and yes we need to be strict.
What do you suppose we do if we aren't strict?
Offer Hackers cookies to stop hacking?

I think ultimately you are turning a criticism of the rules into a criticism of the staff, this isn't an anarchy server and we do have strict chat rules, stricter than many other servers in the same category and for good reason, we have a large age range from young to very old and people appreciate not being insulted when they joined. That is in my opinion one of the biggest things that has made CM a success alongside craftys never ending dedication. While I understand that may not be for you and it may have caused some of your friends to leave. Those are the rules and we should stick to them in my opinion and I think the majority of players Ingame will agree with that sentiment.

@Cileklim I've seen a lot of players leave because of staff and sadly, some of them were my close friends.

Can you tell us the player and what lead to this?
If you really want staff to change we need to know what, how and why. Simply saying we caused people you like to leave shows nothing. We cause dozens of Hackers to leave everyday.

I'm not going to give their names, I care about their privacy. And I'm not expecting staff to change either.
Keeping it simple nowadays

@AssaultSquid I have trouble even speaking on the subject let alone holding my tongue in chat, when i joined this server i had every intention of being as kind as possible but when i voiced a complaint about how it feels unfair to ask people to vote to be able to set home i was greeted by some real A class rudeness all around,
this trend pretty much continued from then on
I consider my self a rational person but i have not encountered any staff actually ever trying to deescalate a situation through anything but sheer force,
I was kicked for racism because i stated a FACT that is NOT controversial
xylophone teeth was given a 3 day ban for Pretending to advertise and "not being very sorry about it"
he was not rude in his ban appeal but justified his actions by saying you cant advertise something that doesnt exist, the stafff reply was that you can advertise something that doesnt exist, im sorry WHAT???
that doesnt make any fucking sense on any level.
i saw a new player join the server once they said "I have an idea" and without hesitation an admin sarcastically replied "oh sure lets here your totally original idea i havent ever heard in years of being admin". it doesnt matter what they were gonna say thats straight up just a shit attitude out the gate from staff.
staff is frequently toxic and they support each other when they are toxic and never own upto mistakes( correct me if im wrong by showing me and instance of this)

Rudeness by whom? I very much doubt it was a staff member, perhaps you can supply logs to see what you think we can improve.
Overall though, chat isn't the place for such a discussion.

Staff always try to calm down situations by changing topic and giving warnings, I'm afraid that statement is simply so untrue I can't let it stand.
Yes however we do use sheer force and often because that is what's required, chat offenders generally don't listen to reason nor do they want to stop. Should we offer them cookies instead?

Of course you can advertise something that doesn't exist, people consistently sell and advertise ideas which don't exist.
In fact it's entirely beside the point, since staff don't have the time to check if every domain posted is real or not. You should not post domains at all, however the fact it wasn't real lead to the 3 day ban instead of the normal permanent.
After which me and Xylo made up and I'd like to say we are friends now since we play together.

Can you provide chat logs of this admin, I severely doubt with your history of rule breaking you are giving us an unbiased representation.
Also we do make mistakes and we do correct them, we screwed up the economy and apologized. We've had long down time and we apologized, we've banned people who aren't hacking rarely or we cant prove and apologized. Despite the fact we offer countless hours of our time on a free server.

I'd like to add that while I've only been a member of staff for a very short period of time, I've been a part of the CraftyMynes server for nearly two years (maybe longer?). A lot of the infractions that staff deals with and that other players feel are harsh stem from people pushing the boundaries of the rules. If someone isn't sure if what they want to say or want to do is against the rules-- why do it? Why not ask first and avoid any trouble?

I understand that everyone's personal views on strictness and leniency are going to be different, and decisions made by staff members aren't always going to be agreed with by players, but in the end, just as R4 said, we are humans--and players-- too, and we are only trying to make our best judgements, given the situation. I'm all for having well thought out discussions and even debates on how the server is handled, all I ask from everyone is that there is mutual respect between players and staff.

I think it's rather unfair to make any blanket statements about the staff-- just as staff wouldn't (or shouldn't) make any blanket statements about the community of the server. It just wouldn't be accurate and it's definitely not constructive.

@R4iscool1 Regarding the Grassling situation, it was not "abuse" using the first names of staff members. Grassling mentioned he knew that staff was called by first names by other players.

Whether his ban was fair or not is not the point. It's what he said after his appeal in the deleted thread (which included nothing breaking rules, so why remove it in the first place? it was a locked thread anyways) that connects to this community. Many, MANY players have left because of rude staff or pointlessly strict enforcement of rules.

Should rules be enforced? Of course.
Should private info be leaked? Obviously not.

But to say that staff's enforcement of rules and general demeanor is NOT an issue to the community at large is blindness. I've been here for three months and it's blatantly obvious to me and most of the playerbase here.

@R4iscool1 Please do not give me the crap of "What should we do? Offer cookies to hackers?" and the like when I am being mature, honest, and allowing for community input on a big issue on CM. I'm not saying we abolish the rules. As for a solution, well, that's why this thread is public, because I am not intelligent enough to come up with a perfect solution on my own.

You say this isn't an issue? Look how fast this post has generated responses in the past hour or so. Look around.

@Cileklim I'm not going to give their names, I care about their privacy. And I'm not expecting staff to change either.
Keeping it simple nowadays

Then why even post? To try make staff feel bad for incidents we don't even know about? We can't change if you don't give us a chance.

@Naidae Well said. I do not want to generalize or put staff down. My purpose for this is discussion, not hate rants from either side.