Opinions -- Grassling and More

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  2. 7 years ago
    Edited 7 years ago by Dennari43

    Well, now that I've spent the last hour reading through this, I think I can gather some opening and closing remarks from my experience. And yes, I am staff. That does not make my opinion worthless on the topic of staff. I have been a player far longer than a helper and I became a helper because I like the staff and the community we used to be and I want to keep it alive. First off, a common thing I read here has to do with staff being rude. I personally don't understand why so many people can't understand sarcasm. Some staff are direct with their reasoning and responses, some are sarcastic. That doesn't make them wrong or unjustified, it just means they have a different approach. And with my time on the server, I've noticed that the players who often get themselves banned after a few months(or even a few minutes) because they subtly push the boundaries every once in a while are usually the ones that get the most heated about sarcastic staff. Sarcasm given to a troll can easily be twisted into claiming staff abuse. I've been on the server many times when a staff member responds sarcastically to a player. Would I have said that? No. Are they wrong? No. Every instance I can remember, the staff member is completely in the right. They may not be a model of customer service, but typically the person they're responding to is some form of trouble maker or otherwise shows signs that they won't be hanging around much longer. Sometimes people just need to learn to take a joke. We don't always want to put "lol" at the end of our sentences to show we're not serious or being rude. This more or less feels like The Big Bang Theory episode where Leonard has to make a "sarcasm" sign because Sheldon simply cannot process when Leonard is being sarcastic. That's pretty much what "lol" is, a sign that we're joking. We don't always put "lol", people. It doesn't mean we're serious. Granted, I don't know every situation, I could be wrong, this is purely from what I've seen over a few years.

    And going back to an earlier, smaller topic about the views here, now at almost 700. It really doesn't show opinion, guys. You want to know why it's so high? It's drama. It's juicy gossip that almost no one can resist. It's like turning on the tv and finding out two big celebrities are calling each other out. Most people are gonna stay tuned and watch the crap out of that news channel. A lot of the views are from people that honestly couldn't care less. If they did care, they'd post something or otherwise make their opinion known. Yes, some people just are too afraid to post and get barked at for speaking, but a lot is just drama watching with no intention of making their opinions known. I know, I've been that person many a time.

    I'd also like to point out that staff do care about what you guys suggest. We do read your posts, even if we don't comment on them. We do think about them. I love reading suggestions, sometimes putting my two cents in, sometimes storing it in memory for a later date when that topic becomes important again. The players of this community are what make us necessary, for better and for worse. Without the community, Craftymynes is just an empty server. So we do care and we want to make you happy. That's why we spend so much time making fun stuff for the server and trying to keep it as clean as we can.

    And if there is anything here that I feel should be stressed, it's that staff are human too. It was mentioned a few times, but not enough. We're just people. We have lives, we have friends, we have closer-than-friends. We date, we live, we get upset, we make mistakes, we learn, we do better. That's what human is. Don't expect us to be perfect. This isn't a job for us, it's willingly sacrificing our time to allow you guys to have fun. We do make mistakes, and I have seen many times when staff have apologized and resolved a situation because they knew they were wrong. I'm not saying that we should be absolved of our mistakes, but understand that we have a right to defend ourselves if we think we don't deserve this kind of complaint against us. In some situations, it can be a complete grey area, which makes for a very difficult justification on either end and the only resolution is that staff get final say.

    In Vene's case, if someone knew my real name and said it in open chat, I would be upset too, especially when I never said they could. This isn't real life. This is the internet. We chose our names here and expect to be addressed by them. Vene wants to be addressed by the name he chose for you to see, not the one someone said and you picked up on. Whether for the sake of his choice in name, or for the sake of respecting staff, you should never call someone by any name other than what they have approved of. Just because someone can say something doesn't mean everyone can. And it has nothing to do with staff. If someone learns you're name and is calling you out in open chat with it and you told them not to, that's disrespectful and feel free to talk to staff about it. This shouldn't be blown out of proportion just because they are both staff, because anyone has a right to keep their name private, or at least have it not be used. I think the ban was justified, for many mini reasons that added up to be a big reason. Maybe that's why some people are arguing over technicality of the ban. The reason chosen was not the entirety of it, but a small part of a bigger whole. But like I said, it's a lot of grey area between personal info, respect, and previous issues. None of us are going to learn exactly what was going through their heads when it went down or afterwards. I don't know the full story, but from what I've seen, this is my best opinion of it and until visual proof is given to show otherwise, this will remain my opinion.

    Edit: Also, may I point out how because we are human, we are far less likely to take into consideration your opinions when put into a thread full of insults towards staff. Some complaints are legitimate, but a few of them are just jabs at staff for no reason other than annoyed kids who got in trouble for breaking rules. If you want your opinion heard without backlash, please, please, PLEASE, do a pm to staff and not create another witchhunt. What this is is a few upset people standing on a soap box in a public place and shouting complaints to the general public instead of taking it up with the people in charge themselves. Much like a public group of upset people, these threads always turn more into a riot than a resolution. You know how riots end? With those in charge suppressing the riot and no change is made. If you want change, get off your soap box and talk to the staff personally, not to the itching crowd waiting for a bite of action.

    Please don't take any of this with ill will. This is my opinion and what I believe. If you have a rational reasoning for otherwise, feel free to think otherwise. We're all just human here.

  3. We went from one thing to another 20 some times @rnc2011 always there being the good person he is other then that this is sad

  4. hi

  5. I was trying to stay out of this as I am home sick from work. But Grassling you keep saying you were mocked for bringing up staff communications before. Are you refering to this https://forum.craftymynes.com/6365-staff-communication. Because while some responses may have been a little cheeky, I dont feel the staff were mocking you. If you inturpreted it that way, Im sure they never intended it and will remember this thread when dealing with others in the future. Being sure to do their best not to offend others in the same manner.
    But my main point is that after re reading that other tread I cant help but feel the majority of staff that replied were doing their best to explain our communication methods/habits, not mocking you. Again though Im sorry to hear you took it that way, I know how stressful somethig like that can be and theres no way to take that back now after the fact.

  6. @Qfu

    hi machine broke

  7. Edited 7 years ago by Grassling

    @Dennari43 you say we need to stop taking jabs at staff but you explicitly just called me an angry kid which I see as a jab in itself. My purpose in this thread is not to appeal my ban as i've stated it was only brought up (not even by me) to support the argument at hand. I simply asked for the reason I was actually banned but i'm just told its a bunch of little things. When staff were addressed with in this forum originally by berdie i believe he also said the problem was a bunch of things but he was asked to explain in order to effectively communicate an understanding. Maybe you could try do so yourself unless you just decided to communicate in a conversation you lack knowledge of and are therefore not defending an argument but instead a side.(staff) i want my opinion to be heard without "backlash" because if staff members expect respect they should be exemplary.

  8. Edited 7 years ago by r4iscool1

    @SnowProper sorry, I am still on this part, but it bothers me, because it is a generally made mistake. aka a pet peeve of mine.

    just because the definition of slander says that in some cases it can be written, you said you do not like your character be the slandered. which then incurs the legal definition of slander and libel. if you had just used slander in a normal sentence, without reference to you being personally attacked, you would be correct. but, since you used it in a way to state it as a matter that you were being Defamed, it then becomes its legal definition. Here is your case for that then...

    https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/differences-between-defamation-slander-and-libel

    English is tricky, especially when you speak legal english.

    Slandered is the verb not the noun, to be Slandered.
    Thus I quite Google
    slander
    ˈslɑːndə/Submit
    verb
    past tense: slandered; past participle: slandered
    make false and damaging statements about (someone).
    "they were accused of slandering the head of state"
    The legal argument is utterly irrelevant to the meaning of the word.

  9. @SnowProper Going back to Youtube videos now, I think I at least showed my case against R4 saying there is no evidence of the staff doing this. If you need the last word Dawn, go ahead, my job is done.

    Yes you posted images that proved I did not forbid you saying harassment ever when I simply asked you to stop referencing incidents in chat.

  10. He didn't reference anything. If fact he was trying to tell you he didn't in that personal feud. That wasn't his intention in fact he was talking to me while saying it.
    And none of his words we're mocking staff I don't se ewhy you were threatening with a ban.

  11. Edited 7 years ago by HaloNest

    I'm on staff on this one, but there's only one thing I don't get...

    @R4iscool1 Slandered is the verb not the noun, to be Slandered.
    Thus I quite Google
    slander
    ˈslɑːndə/Submit
    verb
    past tense: slandered; past participle: slandered
    make false and damaging statements about (someone).
    "they were accused of slandering the head of state"
    The legal argument is utterly irrelevant to the meaning of the word.

    Why do you keep arguing like that mate?
    Sometimes feels like you argue just for the sake of arguing..

  12. This thread is getting off topic and has now switched to a back and forth of petty arguments between people. This thread either gets back on track or I will lock it.

    I haven't even begun to read this mess in detail yet but I will get to it.

    Nysic

  13. Deleted 7 years ago by Nysic
  14. Edited 7 years ago by r4iscool1

    @Grassling @Dennari43 you say we need to stop taking jabs at staff but you explicitly just called me an angry kid which I see as a jab in itself. My purpose in this thread is not to appeal my ban as i've stated it was only brought up (not even by me) to support the argument at hand. I simply asked for the reason I was actually banned but i'm just told its a bunch of little things. When staff were addressed with in this forum originally by berdie i believe he also said the problem was a bunch of things but he was asked to explain in order to effectively communicate an understanding. Maybe you could try do so yourself unless you just decided to communicate in a conversation you lack knowledge of and are therefore not defending an argument but instead a side.(staff) i want my opinion to be heard without "backlash" because if staff members expect respect they should be exemplary.

    Staff have the right not to be harassed.
    You do not have the right to use their personal first names regardless of whether other people use it when you have been told to stop.
    I'm sure you don't have strangers on the Internet refer to you by your RL name.
    Does that clear why you were banned?

    Staff can only do as best as possible, we offer a free service to the server and pout hundreds of hours in and we do make mistakes that happens but that doesn't mean we are unfit for staff.

    @HaloNest I'm on staff on this one, but there's only one thing I don't get...

    Why do you keep arguing like that mate?
    Sometimes feels like you argue just for the sake of arguing..

    Just responding to his correction that's all.

  15. Deleted 7 years ago by Nysic
  16. Deleted 7 years ago by Nysic
  17. @Grassling @Dennari43 you say we need to stop taking jabs at staff but you explicitly just called me an angry kid which I see as a jab in itself.

    I was not referring to you. Not all vague comments are directed at you personally. I mentioned you near the end of my speech and that was I I have to say about you. You are not the topic I'm concerned about.

    The reason you were banned? I don't know exactly, like I said. But it appears to be many little reasons that add up to be a big reason, like a swarm of bees attacking you versus a giant dog biting you. One is many little things, the other one big thing, both do harm. That's about as simple as I can explain it.

    @Grassling When staff were addressed with in this forum originally by berdie i believe he also said the problem was a bunch of things but he was asked to explain in order to effectively communicate an understanding. Maybe you could try do so yourself unless you just decided to communicate in a conversation you lack knowledge of and are therefore not defending an argument but instead a side.(staff)

    The amount of rudeness makes it hard not to be sarcastic, but I'll refrain from that, as it seems it's too much for most to understand. I mentioned many topics, not all of them are answers, I did not mention every topic. I spent an hour reading this mess of a mosh pit and I forgot some things I wanted to say when I got to a point I could start typing. So I am very sorry if I did not mention everything you wanted me to. I touched on the topics I had something significant to say on. Nothing more. And there is no real argument here. There's your situation, which you, yourself, have said this is not about, so you're case doesn't matter from here on out. The rest of this is, as I said, a small group of upset people calling out staff. The only options here are to say "yes, I think staff are bad and toxic and should be fixed" or "i think staff is in the right here". So there really only are the two options of which "side" you want to believe. I chose mine. And if you're issue is that I'm not being specific, remember, I spent an hour reading this. I got to the party late. I didn't get out my note pad and start sketching out my essay with each comment in mind with a full rebuttal and everything. It's 3 AM and I don't have the time to note everyone's views and whether I agree or disagree with them all. I said what I wanted to say. And considering almost everything I said has more to do with character and less with physical facts, I don't have to be specific or site evidence, as it is from my experience learning and hanging around staff and this server. There is no direct evidence for me to site, as I'm noting personalities and mindsets, not moments in time. My post is not intended to resolve the situation, but give my opinion in hopes to lead to a resolution, which is apparently hopeless considering your immediate harsh response to it. You're just encouraging the soap box metaphor.

    @Grassling i want my opinion to be heard without "backlash" because if staff members expect respect they should be exemplary.

    How can we be exemplary when we have customers like you? Rude, insulting, saying they want a resolution but all they do is stir up more heat. We're human, just like you. Did my comment sting? Did it make you upset? I feel like it did. It should. I'd be upset if someone called me out in such a mean way, which you did. That's all this is. While Nerdie is trying his best not to devolve to this state and reduce this thread to insults and fighting, which I do respect, that's what it will end up being.

    And staff deserve respect because they already earned it. That's why they're staff. They showed they can hold the server's interests at heart while maintaining chat and doing everything else staff do. That's how we get picked, get promoted, become admin. We prove that we deserve it. Staff already deserve respect from players, especially the admins and mods. They do so much for this server just to have trolls and hackers and utterly terrible people come along and mess with what they've done. None of us are perfect. You can't expect us to be exemplary. We do the best we can, sometimes we mess up. I'm not denying that. But if you want a staff member to be perfect, then just go ahead and quit minecraft, cause you're never going to find a perfect staff member(that's not an AI) anywhere.

  18. How about we just lock this thread until the morning and give the mods/admins a break because this whole thing seems like a headache and a half to me.

  19. Edited 7 years ago by GrandpaCarl00

    Seriously, this thread has just turned into a petty slugfest for the longest now, I think everyone needs a good time off the forum for abit to take a breather and sleep

  20. Edited 7 years ago by HaloNest

    @Venetorem If i wanted everyone to call me by name, i woupd put it in my username

    My nick is HaloNest but people call me "gab"
    I don't see the math in the user name thingy

  21. @HaloNest My nick is HaloNest but people call me "gab"
    I don't see the math in the user name thingy

    If your uncomfortable with people doing that please contact us privately.

  22. 7 years ago

    Alright, thanks

  23. I do love me threads like this. It's fun to read. Mostly because y'all get lost in every single direction.
    Ah well lads, have fun resolving your issues with staff, I truly wish you good luck with that.
    If I were involved in any of this shit, you know how would my response look like.
    Time to shop, my paycheck arrived yesterday, gotta buy me some stuff. :)

    P.S. I'm on no-one's side, neither staff's or player's. That being said, I'm staying the fuck out of this.

  24. @iDogeTwinkie I do love me

    Oh ya

  25. @HaloNest Oh ya

    I do love myself :P

  26. Edited 7 years ago by NerdieBirdieYT

    As nearly every staff member as mentioned, if this thread turns into arguments over whether the word "slander" was used in the correct legal fashion and crap like that, then everyone may as well stop now.

    If you have something to ADD to this discussion (as nearly all the posts since last night have), then feel free.

  27. Edited 7 years ago by BaronBattleBread

    Most of you know me as a goofy but fair admin- i dont say shit without meaning and by the time im done writing im not even sure what topic im gonna be on, but i hope i can keep it relevant to the main.

    Craftymynes is a community like no other in the minecraft world. The people here, the ones that stay, are wonderful and helpful and communicative, and we love that about you guys and gals.

    We have one of the longest running vanilla servers, forerunners to almost every vanilla trick in the books to date, because the staff built and designed and protect the server to the best of their abilities.
    With the exception of the founders, every one of our staff members was a player, who spent a long time on the server, with their own ideas and grievences, and joined the CM team to help make the place better.

    But our job, above all else, is to make this place as safe and neutral as a sweedish bakery- That means for everyone, staff and players. I like to think we do a dam good job keeping riffraff to a minimum.

    When someone decides to start pushing boundaries, we arent pushovers. We have thousands of hours dealing with people who think they know how to run our server better than us, who think they can skirt the systems, get people behind them because they "technically didnt break the rules, theres nothing written about doing that"... there shouldnt have to be. but now theyve forced it to be because they wouldnt let go of the thread of the idea that theyve someone got the upperhand.

    Our staff is diverse, yes. Cold analytical minds, venting hotheads, bubbleheaded whositswhatsits- we have alot of different viewpoints, and we talk- alot. about everything. If someone is asked not to do something because its making someone uncomfortable, or is breaking unwritten but commonsense rules, or simply being stupid on purpose and continues to do so after being asked to stop, then told to stop and it dosent change because their wall on anonymity is a saftey bubble.. thats not someone you keep around. You keep around the players that laugh, and talk, and build and want to better the community- not the ones who dont care if they break it down.

    bloody hell i need to learn that commas arent periods

  28. Edited 7 years ago by r4iscool1

    @NerdieBirdieYT As nearly every staff member as mentioned, if this thread turns into arguments over whether the word "slander" was used in the correct legal fashion and crap like that, then everyone may as well stop now.

    If you have something to ADD to this discussion (as nearly all the posts since last night have), then feel free.

    No offense but personally I don't see how someone insisting using real life info isn't harassment adds to the discussion.
    We don't use your personally indemnifying if no in game and we expect the same respect back, whether he let's other people he's very close with or not use it, is besides the point. An IP address is technically public domain so is an email but people wouldn't comfortable if we revealed that however. The fact that the info may be available publicly has no bearing on whether you should be allowed to refer to someone by their IRL info without their permission.
    It's turned from issues with staff communication into grassing was banned unfairly. Which doesn't help with the threads stayed purpose.

  29. Deleted 7 years ago by Nysic
  30. @BaronBattleBread Amazing comment, the topic of common sense used with staff seemed to be oversighted on this thread. One of the best comments on this thread yet.

  31. @BaronBattleBread, well said. This in mind I would agree that staff protect the server from all sorts of crap. However, I would personally have seen Staff act differently or use the rules differently. If you are going to enforce the rules you should do it with out exception. I have seen staff use the rules for their benefit. I would feel more comfortable if the rules were enforced equally on everyone. Which in my eyes are not. I personally agree with you, I think our ADMINS and staff do a fine job when protecting us from perdition on the server and I thank you. It is just sometimes you see something that is not justified and no one stands up for anyone. When you do you get your a** handed to you.

  32. Edited 7 years ago by HaloNest

    Wait a second I just read a couple of previous messages abd this is what I got:

    You can't call somebody by nane aka "handin out personal info" unless you're either digital-datin' that person (no shit that's great for ya') or you have some "good"reasons... that's a bit, strict?
    But if staff tells you to stop, regardless the apparent reason you gotta stop that's what most people tend to missunderstand staff do what they have to do...
    So yes, you can't allow some players stuff and forbid it to others, you either get over it or forbid it to everybody.
    CraftyMyner didn't unban JSN_ just because he's an OG, you don't allow yer lady to call you per name because you two are engagin'.
    No shit vene, my personal Photoshop guide, I really like you and respect you, this isn't really anything to be pissed off about.

    One last thing, what's wrong with calling per name?
    I can kind of understand if it's something related to your pride, maybe you got a name which you don't like or something like that, you shouldn't imo, but it's understandable.
    But giving out personal info that's a bit of an exageration since there are millions of people called like you, maybe those people even share your same surname (try searching your name and surname on facebook, and see).
    But it's too late now, we all know that you're a russian secret agent and your name got exposed :P .

    Also while writing this one immage popped out in my mind:
    -image-

    Just to sdramatise, I really have nothing against staff, I'm actually geateful towards them.

    :^)
    P.S.
    Witness why GIMP skills vene xD

  33. @Ealdwine_Drasax @BaronBattleBread, well said. This in mind I would agree that staff protect the server from all sorts of crap. However, I would personally have seen Staff act differently or use the rules differently. If you are going to enforce the rules you should do it with out exception. I have seen staff use the rules for their benefit. I would feel more comfortable if the rules were enforced equally on everyone. Which in my eyes are not. I personally agree with you, I think our ADMINS and staff do a fine job when protecting us from perdition on the server and I thank you. It is just sometimes you see something that is not justified and no one stands up for anyone. When you do you get your a** handed to you.

    Can you give some examples of where you think rules were used to staff advantage or applied unequally.
    We can't change if you don't give us the how and why you think we were wrong in a situation.

  34. Edited 7 years ago by r4iscool1

    @HaloNest a person's personal info is there right alone. If they choose to deny it to anyone with or without reason that's their rights. In real life, no one has the right to your personal data either, every site you sign up for legally is required to have you consent to them collecting identifying data. If someone is uncomfortable about someone they don't know calling them by their first name then they have the right to ask them to stop. As grassling was told to do, when we asked him to stop calling staff by name.
    People have a right to privacy and given the harassment we have had on this server before, we are especially aware of that here.

    Like I've said before would you be comfortable if we posted you emails and IP addresses which are also public info?

  35. @R4iscool1 We cannot all see players ips when they log on but we can see everything said in global chat (Venes name)

  36. @Grassling @R4iscool1 We cannot all see players ips when they log on but we can see everything said in global chat (Venes name)

    How does that make a difference?
    If I understand correctly the majority of the arguments here have hinged on the idea it's public info, just like an IP address and email are.
    People have a right to the privacy of their own info.

  37. Public means that every single person has access to the information?? I dont know how you can argue against that even if you use your alt again. @R4iscool1

  38. Edited 7 years ago by GrandpaCarl00

    Litterally, it's open information that's all over, if people don't want people knowing or seeing it, It shouldn't have been posted for the whole world to see, that's vens fault for making it public information for the world to know

  39. Edited 7 years ago by r4iscool1

    Zane isn't my alt, my alt actually have more ticks than my main at the moment but I don't see this going anywhere. Since either doubt if we both live streamed playing together it would convince you.

    Yes every single IP on the Internet is publicly accessible if that's what you are asking. They follow a pretty simple formula after all, every one of the 4 billion or so.

  40. @GrandpaCarl00 Litterally, it's open information that's all over, if people don't want people knowing or seeing it, It shouldn't have been posted for the whole world to see

    The same ideal can be applied to an IP address.
    However I do see where you are coming from with regards to posting it however, knowing the info doesn't give you the right to use it.
    Google knows all our info however unless we have consented to them using it, they don't have the right to violate our privacy.

  41. Edited 7 years ago by GrandpaCarl00

    @R4iscool1

    Though I don't agree 100% with everything that @Grassling has done, You got to keep in mind that public information whenever it'd be publicly posted or doxxed, people are going to use it no matter what feeling or thinking mindset you come from, that's just how the world is going to roll

    Especially if it's publicly known information that the person whoever had decided to make so public, It's somewhat silly to get mad over something like that, emphasis on somewhat as I'm saying it's also to a degree justifiable to be mad.

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