@Xenial_Jesse The reality is that vanilla isn't going to solve lag issues like plugins do. The only real reason in this thread to keep going with pure vanilla is in Crafty's replies: time.

The flipside of that is the other reality: profit.
The server currently doesn't run in a way that will hold onto players. Right now we *prefer* when there are about 6 players on, and that's not how you want a server population to be thinking.

Even when we consider the (better) 1.13 performance on Crafty, I just tried another raid/grief-friendly 1.13 server in the US. I'm connecting from Australia and the difference is simply unbelievable. Not one block lagged, even digging with bare hands. At least 80 players on, since 80 is all that could fit on the screen. Mobs moved fast. Tick speed was actually running on time. I didn't know online games could feel that close to single player. It was unbelievable to me while playing but maybe that's actually normal. With over 80 players.

Even in 1.13 on Crafty we didn't get anything like that. A server on vanilla will tick more slowly more often. It doesn't matter what Mojang should do; they aren't doing it.

If we can still play the vanilla experience with simply less lag, I'm for it. I love the legit vanilla experience, but we don't have to hold onto a bad thing just because it's been held onto for so long already.

Back in 1.8 we were able to hold 88 players with little to no lag, we now have better hardware and more optimized systems, but we can barely manage 2tps. Mojang has clearly shown they are never going to be on a road to optimization and performance.

@Th3GreenGamer I really don’t think going semi-vanilla is a good idea. We’d just be a drop in a semi-vanilla ocean. Not special like it is now, being an ACTUALLY vanilla server (Which is the server’s unique core purpose). Going back all those years ago, I would have never actually joined if this was s-v. For those that would say “Nothing would be different” Yes it would, there would be no reason for the server to exist. It would have no defining principle. Destroying the thing that makes this server unique is just destroying the server altogether. Honestly If the server was made into semi-vanilla I might very well leave.

I have held off changing to spigot for so long just because of this issue. I have spent 5 years developing this server solely with vanilla in mind. Every single system from the custom panel that handles votes, homes, chat filtering, server AI helper, donations, hacker detection to the forum and other services that CraftyMynes has. All these, for the most part, were unheard of in the vanilla category, we were the first for so many things. That being said, the majority of these features could have been implemented just by downloading a simple plugin from some random forum somewhere. I picked vanilla because I enjoyed the challenge of doing something no one else had done, developing tools and methods that didn't exist.

All that being said, I am tired of the shit that mojang pulls, it is impossible to run a server where every second word out of someone's mouth is LAAAAGGG. It pains me to see all these players come on for 5 minutes and say "This server is shit, they should buy some more ram.", for god sakes, I pay $100's a month on the best server components that money can buy, and even more money on the services that make CraftyMynes special. Every waking hour I am tuning each and every component/system to run as smooth as possible. At this point, I can't tell if the pain of giving up everything I stand for, all my hard work to keep this server vanilla, is worse than the pain of knowing CraftyMynes might not exist in the not too distant future. I gotta be honest with you, I never wanted to make money from this server, but at the same time, I can't be paying everything out of pocket.

CraftyMynes key selling points are it's Vanilla, it has systems like TPA, and a good community.

TPA is no longer special, vanilla is dying, so all we got is a community, if we don't do something soon, we won't have community and a server without community is nothing.

I say, wait for 1.14.3 to come out, see what it brings to the table, but, if it can't hold more than 5 people without lagging, we will have to switch or risk disappearing altogether.

My 2cents.

@FieryPhoenix64 If we do change to spigot, will it be a custom written one by crafty or a third party one by some random people?

What would be custom written?

@FieryPhoenix64 If we do change to spigot, will it be a custom written one by crafty or a third party one by some random people?

@Th3GreenGamer I think he means like custom written plugins.

We would be using paper spigot and the panel I have already written, however, I would be making a plugin to translate the ".Commands" to "/Commands", I might also make some of my own plugins later down the line. We won't be using any off the shelf stuff like essentials.

@deyahruhd I understand that, I work with threading in C++ all the time. What I'm trying to convey is that this should have been a top priority from the very beginning because shifting a massive codebase from a single threaded serial approach to multithreading is much more difficult then just designing it to be multithreaded in the first place.

Games like Seed of Andromeda are designed with multithreading in mind, so it gets to enjoy insane water physics and gravel cascading that would be a technical marvel to see in Minecraft. I would put it past Mojang to prioritize performance over adding random things to the game.

Obviously the problem here is that Mojang doesn't sell Minecraft by making a stable server software, the sell it by releasing new features. Unless something was to make Minecraft run dog slow even on spigot, they will only do enough performance improvements to make up for their new features. It's a sad reality but its true.