@Cileklim I'll go right back to the start then.

Scenario 1

Player A hacks and gets caught.
Player A posts a ban appeal on forum.
Admins tell Player A that s/he is free to come back with an alt.
Player A buys an alt account on ebay for around $5 dollars.
Player A keeps playing with his/her alt like a normal player for few hours.
Player A decides to hack again.
A is more cautious this time. S/he does his/her best to not get caught again.
A successfully gains a huge advantage over other players.
After some while, A gets caught while hacking again.
A gets IP banned.
A changes his/her IP address and buys a new alt.
A is angry because s/he got banned twice. S/he does his/her best to spam the shit out of the server.
As always, A gets banned again. Again, and again.

Scenario 2

Player B hacks and gets caught.
Player B gets IP banned.
Player B posts a ban appeal on forum.
Player B is told that hackers are not tolerated, his/her appeal is denied (for real).
Player B decides to hack in another server instead.

Which one sounds more reasonable?
Staff, why the extra work?

I did my best to explain the real problem. If this gets avoided too, well, there is nothing I can do about it.

Your example shows exactly why an ip ban won't outright work 100% of the time, exactly as the current system isn't 100% flawless.

"A gets IP banned.
A changes his/her IP address and buys a new alt. "

MANY people do that anyways, regardless if they had a second chance or not. the GTA guy for example. he's been ip banned COUNTLESS times and he came back again and again. An outright IP ban won't help anything more than what we're already doing. only so much you can do, and it's being done already.

@PapaNeon Your example shows exactly why an ip ban won't outright work 100% of the time, exactly as the current system isn't 100% flawless.

Correct! I'm glad its clear now.
IP ban is just a temporary solution because of how system works.

Yes, an IP ban is same with a ban + ban + IP ban
But there are benefits. Such as?

• Saves time to staff members. (obviously)
• More strict than telling them to come back with alts.

@PapaNeon the current system isn't 100% flawless.

This is why we're all reading this thread in the first place.

You see, we're gaining some progress, I believe that if we can get more opinions about how to solve this, we can successfully find a better solution.

My knowledge is limited to some point since I'm neither admin nor mod.

I hope they can give more information to us instead of "biting" so we can actually think of something. Thanks for reading this far :)

A lot of hackers though wouldn't go through the effort of that, as it's so much easier to just find another server. In my opinion, the current system is more beneficial to those willing to clean up their act. Sure we'll get repeat offenders but it's going to happen no matter what really. At least this way players can genuinely have a second chance to make up for their mistakes

Doesn't this seem like maybe we're trying to find issues where there isn't one? Hackers come, they get banned they go. If they come back (alt or otherwise) if they cheat again they get banned again. I have always been impressed with how quickly staff responds to hackers, trolls and nuisance players. I think we can all agree, if someone REALLY wants to come back, they will; but, as long as the staff continues with the same diligence (voluntarily I might add) I don't see this as the problem this thread seems to be making it.

I want to make clear, I praise the staff on this server solely because there dedication truly impresses me, I have come and gone from this server many times, but the core staff have always been dedicated enough to provide a service 24 hours a day, for almost 3 years now, and the only time that service has been interrupted is when someone manically malicious, decided they needed to bring it down, and the only thing they ended up accomplishing was making the server community tighter.

@Yelloms Doesn't this seem like maybe we're trying to find issues where there isn't one?

Yep.

To the original post I think the only improvement to speak of is just not to mention "you are welcome to come back on an alt" in the appeal denial response because it does give mixed messages.

But other than that I think their use of when to employ an ip ban is completely appropriate. Not outright ip banning does give them more work, but they are trying to avoid banning other innocent players that share the ip (ex: brother and sister in a house, swaths of users in a college dorm, etc). Never mind the fact that persistent hackers will find a way back regardless.

It's all about assessed risk, and the staff has shown us repeatedly they put a lot of thought into their enforcement actions to do what's right and stay as fair as needed.

Side comment - @CraftyMyner
You were a planetside 2 player? Nice. Cheater? Not so nice lol. That brings back a lot of memories of my past hardcore gaming life.

I played PS2 and PS1 before that, and numerous other FPS games. On PS2 I was in the top 25 for Emerald-Vanu for almost three months straight from sept 2013-nov 2013 for my K:D ratio and literally switched directly to CM to retire from "all that."

*sigh*
that's what a wife and kids do to your free time.

this is funny xd

@ZenithW I personally think that X-ray-ers should be considered as ip-banned, especially if they were caught raiding with x-ray. What if they x-ray with alt and raid with their main? Possibly even post the coords they find? It's just unfair to loyal players that spend so much time in their builds and vaults. However, i wonder if anyone ever thought about this seriously

This just doesn't make any sense.
How does x-raying on an alt and then raiding with a main provide any benefit over straight up x-raying...

It's just a silly proposition to be honest and you need to go into more detail as to exactly what you are referring to.

Wow.........

I actually read the whole thing :^)

@Valgys To the original post I think the only improvement to speak of is just not to mention "you are welcome to come back on an alt" in the appeal denial response because it does give mixed messages.

Well said!

@Cileklim Well said!

That doesn't really seem like an improvement to me.
At craftymynes we want to encourage people to reform when possible and become active members of our community. There is no mixed message there, we would be happy to have any good players back if they made a single slip up.
The kind of people with malicious intent towards our server already know they can rejoin on an alt for the most part. What we are doing by this message is giving people who seem to be legitimately apologising a second chance of sorts. Sometimes this doesn't work and we curse the rule but the success stories are far to prominent to deny and the benefit the community gains is far greater than the extra time we invest on the occasion they hack.

The majority of people you are blocking with something like this are legit players.
Staff have seen from our position that the benefits of doing this far outweigh the risks.

We all have different opinions about this.

I still stand by my opinion when it comes to this. I mean in the same time this is quite complicated and fucked up because people would still be dumb enough to repeat the same thing. Let's be real there's almost no way to permanently ban them, but telling them they're more than welcome to come back on an alt is simply put as allowing them to ban evade and giving them a second chance. Cheaters don't deserve second chances. Just like in relationships. :)

@R4iscool1 The majority of people you are blocking with something like this are legit players.

@Sofatroll , @OmegaSniper4eva , @OtherGreenGamer , and?

This, is the majority of people?

I'm afraid what you said cannot be proven until someone shows proof, the stats that confirm the effectiveness of this method.

Dozens of players are getting banned every week and you officially give them another chance to do the same mistakes again, for the sake of 3-5 players.

No offense but in my opinion, it's not worth it. Just my two cents though.

Last time I checked this sever Isint a real life relationship