The reality is that vanilla isn't going to solve lag issues like plugins do. The only real reason in this thread to keep going with pure vanilla is in Crafty's replies: time.

The flipside of that is the other reality: profit.
The server currently doesn't run in a way that will hold onto players. Right now we *prefer* when there are about 6 players on, and that's not how you want a server population to be thinking.

Even when we consider the (better) 1.13 performance on Crafty, I just tried another raid/grief-friendly 1.13 server in the US. I'm connecting from Australia and the difference is simply unbelievable. Not one block lagged, even digging with bare hands. At least 80 players on, since 80 is all that could fit on the screen. Mobs moved fast. Tick speed was actually running on time. I didn't know online games could feel that close to single player. It was unbelievable to me while playing but maybe that's actually normal. With over 80 players.

Even in 1.13 on Crafty we didn't get anything like that. A server on vanilla will tick more slowly more often. It doesn't matter what Mojang should do; they aren't doing it.

If we can still play the vanilla experience with simply less lag, I'm for it. I love the legit vanilla experience, but we don't have to hold onto a bad thing just because it's been held onto for so long already.

It's worth acknowledging that right now the biggest causes of lag aren't so much vanilla as they are 1.14.

1.14.3 in theory could get things back to vanilla 1.13 performance, but we've been through those hopes with 1.14.1 and 1.14.2 already. Plus as others have mentioned, ongoing future versions of Minecraft will give the server more to deal with for each new feature.

I really don’t think going semi-vanilla is a good idea. We’d just be a drop in a semi-vanilla ocean. Not special like it is now, being an ACTUALLY vanilla server (Which is the server’s unique core purpose). Going back all those years ago, I would have never actually joined if this was s-v. For those that would say “Nothing would be different” Yes it would, there would be no reason for the server to exist. It would have no defining principle. Destroying the thing that makes this server unique is just destroying the server altogether. Honestly If the server was made into semi-vanilla I might very well leave.

I understand what you are saying - i joined CM precisely because it was vanilla. But we are losing players fast at the moment partly because they find the lag intolerable and partly because of the no of bugs introduced with 1.14. With each update it has become harder and harder to support a reasonable number of players on the server at the same time without getting serious lag.

Whilst my heart will always be true vanilla, my brain has come to the conclusion that CM must seriously consider if it is time to convert to semi vanilla.

I would stress that even if we do use spigot to enhance performance there will be no plugins that change gameplay so it will still be the game as it is intended to be played and I believe Crafty can integrate all the current services and perks we enjoy into it so you wont actually notice any difference other than the lack of lag.

As for being a drop in the semi-vanilla ocean and not being special - i don't think it is only the vanilla element that makes this place special. The dedication to the integrity of the server by ensuring it is played fairly, the community, the staff and Crafty's skill in making things work all contribute to the specialness. I am sure if we went semi-vanilla we would soon be at the top of the listings.

Whilst I would not want to pressure anyone to vote either way, I do encourage folks to keep an open mind over the prospective change.

I kinda understand that being vanilla was good but here's the thing... You telling me that you'd rather play on CM because it is laggy and unplayable? That plug-in we are talking about will in NO WAY change the gameplay and I don't understand all the fuss that's around it.

Whatever the decision it's gonna be made, I'm with the community. Never saw any other community as chill as CM.

@CraftyMyner All that being said, I am tired of the shit that mojang pulls, it is impossible to run a server where every second word out of someone's mouth is LAAAAGGG. It pains me to see all these players come on for 5 minutes and say "This server is shit, they should buy some more ram.", for god sakes, I pay $100's a month on the best server components that money can buy, and even more money on the services that make CraftyMynes special. Every waking hour I am tuning each and every component/system to run as smooth as possible.

"SERVER NEEDS MORE RAM 5.0 GHZ ISNT ENOUGH MY FAVORITE SPIGOT SERVER RUNS BETTER"

Final conclusion for me:

The disagreement seems to boil down to principle vs pragmatism. Of course while I firmly fall into principle, neither side is wrong. If there is a vote I will vote vanilla. I think giving up what the server stands for will just be giving up on what makes this server, this server.

Atleast the 1.14.3 Prerlease looks promising. Seems to solve quite a few of the major issues.

While I feel that sticking to our vanilla routes is important, I know that this server is more than just a server or block game. In its more simplest form, it is yes, but this server provides a getaway for people. It is a way to distract from real life for a couple of hours and have some fun you might otherwise not. It has given me people I'd call my closest friends. I've even met a couple of people in person that I've played with for years on here. When I first joined the server I was in a dark place with my depression and family issues. When I had free time I could come on for a little bit and play with others. I didn't feel as alone and isolated from the world. I had people to spend time with to make the bad times go just a little bit faster and be a little more enjoyable. I think that our community is so strong and if we wish to stick to the principal of being vanilla the server will die out and we will lose all the creative, loving and caring people that make our server special and unique. As much as I would hate losing our vanilla status, I would rather lose that than each and every one of you lovely people that kept me going in those dark times and keep me company to this day :)

@CraftyMyner I say, wait for 1.14.3 to come out, see what it brings to the table, but, if it can't hold more than 5 people without lagging, we will have to switch or risk disappearing altogether.

Makes sense.

how exciting! i seriously can't wait to not lag uwu

I've not given an opinion on this yet, mostly because I want to stay vanilla, but I know, if things don't get better, that's the wrong decision. I too am for the principle of it. I only found CM because it was vanilla, and I've stayed because of that. It's absolutely amazing all the things Crafty has done with it. A good portion of the people who join don't believe us when we say we're 100% vanilla, because we've managed things other vanilla couldn't. There's some real pride in that. Crafty deserves all the praise in the world for making vanilla the best form of minecraft for a lot of us. I'd hate to see CM turn away from that.

But I also hate seeing CM die. I hate seeing lag be the main topic in chat all the time. I hate hearing so many cries for help because 1.14 screwed someone over in something, time and time again, and there's little to nothing I can do to help. I hate that I don't see my friends on anymore, because they can't play or refuse to play until things are better. I hate that I can only play at certain times when traffic is low, because it's unbearable any other time.

I would love to stay vanilla. But if things don't improve with 1.14.3, then it's not just the server that's at risk of dying. I've spent so many years in this community, and I don't want to lose it. I'd happily switch to semi if it meant keeping this community. I'd switch to a different game entirely if it meant keeping this community. If staying vanilla means watching the thing I care about slowly suffer as I wait for it to inevitably die, then I don't want to be vanilla anymore. And I don't mean to sound harsh in saying this, but if a video game running a certain way is more important than preserving real friendships and keeping a real community alive, you should rethink your principles.